448. And I heard the number of them. This symbolizes their character perceived, that it was as described hereafter.

To hear means, symbolically, to perceive. A number symbolizes the character of a thing or a state (nos. 10, 348, 364). It is the character of these people's state as described hereafter because that is what is now described in the following verses, which is why it begins, "And thus I saw."

4623. But it should be recognized that with spirits the life of their senses is of two different kinds - that which is real and that which is not real. One is distinguished from the other by the fact that everything seen by those in heaven is real, whereas everything seen by those in hell is not real. Whatever comes from the Divine, that is, from the Lord, is real since it comes from the Essential Being (Esse) itself within things and from self-existent Life; but whatever comes from a spirit's proprium is not real since it does not come from the Essential Being (Esse) within things nor from self-existent Life. Those who have an affection for goodness and truth have the Lord's life, and so the life that is real, within themselves; for the Lord is present within goodness and truth through the affection for these. But those who are governed by evil and falsity through their affection for these have the life of the proprium within them and so the life that is not real; for the Lord is not present within evil and falsity. The real is distinguishable from that which is not real by this - that the real is in actual fact what it appears to be, whereas that which is not real is not in actual fact what it appears to be.

[2] Those in hell have the five senses no less than anyone else, and are not aware of things being in reality or in actual fact anything other than what they perceive them to be with their senses. Yet when the angels look at the selfsame things these look to them like phantoms which then disappear, while the spirits themselves do not look like human beings but like monsters. I have also been allowed to talk to those in hell about this matter, and certain of them have said that they believe things are real when they can see and touch them, adding that the senses cannot mislead one. But I have been led to reply that no matter how real such things were seen to be by those spirits they were not real because those spirits themselves were governed by what was contrary or opposed to the Divine, that is to say, by evils and falsities. Furthermore, insofar as evil desires and false notions existed with those spirits, every thought they had was nothing else than an illusion. And when illusions lie behind one's view of anything, one sees real things as those which are not real, and those which are not real as those which are real. Also, unless the Lord in His Divine mercy gave them the use of the five senses they would not have any life that depends on sensory experience, nor therefore any life at all; for the whole of life involves the use of the senses. But to include every experience I have had in these matters would fill up very many pages.

[3] Let people therefore be on their guard when they enter the next life, so that they are not deceived; for evil spirits know all kinds of ways to deceive the eyes of those recently arrived there from the world. Or if they are unable to delude them, those evil spirits nevertheless try by means of their deceptions to convince recent arrivals that nothing is real but that all things, including those in heaven, are no more than mental abstractions.