9372. And He said unto Moses. That this signifies that which concerns the Word in general, is evident from the representation of Moses, as being the Word (of which below); and from the signification of “He said,” as involving those things which follow in this chapter, thus those which concern the Word (see n. 9370). (That Moses represents the Word, can be seen from what has been often shown before about Moses, as from the preface to Genesis 18; and n. 4859, 5922, 6723, 6752, 6771, 6827, 7010, 7014, 7089, 7382, 8601, 8760, 8787, 8805.) Here Moses represents the Word in general, because it is said of him in what follows, that he alone should come near unto Jehovah (verse 2); and also that, being called unto out of the midst of the cloud, he entered into it, and went up the mount (verses 16-18).

[2] In the Word there are many who represent the Lord in respect to truth Divine, or in respect to the Word; but chief among them are Moses, Elijah, Elisha, and John the Baptist. That Moses does so, can be seen in the explications just cited above; that so do Elijah and Elisha, can be seen in the preface to Genesis 18; and n. 2762, 5247; and that John the Baptist does so is evident from the fact that he was “Elias who was to come.” He who does not know that John the Baptist represented the Lord as to the Word, cannot know what all those things infold and signify which are said about him in the New Testament; and therefore in order that this secret may stand open, and that at the same time it may appear that Elias, and also Moses, who were seen when the Lord was transfigured, signified the Word, some things may here be quoted which are spoken about John the Baptist; as in Matthew:

After the messengers of John had departed, Jesus began to speak concerning John, saying, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? a reed shaken by the wind? But what went ye out to see? a man clothed in soft raiment? Behold, they that wear soft things are in kings’ houses. But what went ye out to see? a prophet? Yea, I say unto you, even more than a prophet. This is he of whom it is written, Behold I send Mine angel before Thy face, who shall prepare Thy way before Thee. Verily I say unto you, Among those who are born of women there hath not arisen a greater than John the Baptist; nevertheless he that is less in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he. All the prophets and the law prophesied until John. And if ye are willing to believe, he is Elias who was to come. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear (Matthew 11:7-15; and also Luke 7:24-28).

No one can know how these things are to be understood, unless he knows that this John represented the Lord as to the Word, and unless he also knows from the internal sense what is signified by “the wilderness” in which he was, also what by “a reed shaken by the wind,” and likewise by “soft raiment in kings’ houses;” and further what is signified by his being “more than a prophet,” and by “none among those who are born of women being greater than he, and nevertheless he that is less in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he,” and lastly by his being “Elias.” For without a deeper sense, all these words are uttered merely from some comparison, and not from anything of weight.

[3] But it is very different when by John is understood the Lord as to the Word, or the Word representatively. Then by “the wilderness of Judea in which John was” is signified the state in which the Word was at the time when the Lord came into the world, namely, that it was “in the wilderness,” that is, it was in obscurity so great that the Lord was not at all acknowledged, neither was anything known about His heavenly kingdom; when yet all the prophets prophesied about Him, and about His kingdom, that it was to endure forever. (That “a wilderness” denotes such obscurity, see n. 2708, 4736, 7313.) For this reason the Word is compared to “a reed shaken by the wind” when it is explained at pleasure; for in the internal sense “a reed” denotes truth in the ultimate, such as is the Word in the letter.

[4] That the Word in the ultimate, or in the letter, is crude and obscure in the sight of men; but that in the internal sense it is soft and shining, is signified by their “not seeing a man clothed in soft raiment, for behold those who wear soft things are in kings’ houses.” That such things are signified by these words, is plain from the signification of “raiment,” or “garments,” as being truths (n. 2132, 2576, 4545, 4763, 5248, 6914, 6918, 9093); and for this reason the angels appear clothed in garments soft and shining according to the truths from good with them (n. 5248, 5319, 5954, 9212, 9216). The same is evident from the signification of “kings’ houses,” as being the abodes of the angels, and in the universal sense, the heavens; for “houses” are so called from good (n. 2233, 2234, 3128, 3652, 3720, 4622, 4982, 7836, 7891, 7996, 7997); and “kings,” from truth (n. 1672, 2015, 2069, 3009, 4575, 4581, 4966, 5044, 6148). Therefore by virtue of their reception of truth from the Lord, the angels are called “sons of the kingdom,” “sons of the king,” and also “kings.”

[5] That the Word is more than any doctrine in the world, and more than any truth in the world, is signified by “what went ye out to see? a prophet? Yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet;” and by, “there hath not arisen among those who are born of women a greater than John the Baptist;” for in the internal sense “a prophet” denotes doctrine (n. 2534, 7269); and “those who are born,” or are the sons, “of women” denote truths (n. 489, 491, 533, 1147, 2623, 2803, 2813, 3704, 4257).

[6] That in the internal sense, or such as it is in heaven, the Word is in a degree above the Word in the external sense, or such as it is in the world, and such as John the Baptist taught, is signified by, “he that is less in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he;” for as perceived in heaven the Word is of wisdom so great that it transcends all human apprehension. That the prophecies about the Lord and His coming, and that the representatives of the Lord and of His kingdom, ceased when the Lord came into the world, is signified by, “all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.” That the Word was represented by John, as by Elijah, is signified by his being “Elias who is to come.”

[7] The same is signified by these words in Matthew:

The disciples asked Jesus, Why say the scribes that Elias must first come? He answered and said, Elias must needs first come, and restore all things. But I say unto you, that Elias hath come already, and they knew him not, but did unto him whatsoever they wished. Even so shall the Son of man also suffer of them. And they understood that He spoke to them of John the Baptist (Matthew 17:10-13).

That “Elias hath come, and they knew him not, but did unto him whatsoever they wished” signifies that the Word has indeed taught them that the Lord is to come, but that still they did not wish to comprehend, interpreting it in favor of the rule of self, and thus extinguishing what is Divine in it. That they would do the same with the truth Divine itself, is signified by “even so shall the Son of man also suffer of them.” (That “the Son of man” denotes the Lord as to truth Divine, see n. 2803, 2813, 3704)

[8] From all this it is now evident what is meant by the prophecy about John in Malachi:

Behold I send you Elijah the prophet before the great and terrible day of Jehovah cometh (Malachi 4:5).

Moreover, the Word in the ultimate, or such as it is in the external form in which it appears before man in the world, is described by the “clothing” and “food” of John the Baptist, in Matthew:

John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judea, had His clothing of camel’s hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his food was locusts and wild honey (Matthew 3:1, 4).

In like manner it is described by Elijah in the second book of Kings:

He was a hairy man, and girt with a girdle of leather about his loins (2 Kings 1:8).

By “clothing,” or a “garment,” when said of the Word, is signified truth Divine there in the ultimate form; by “camel’s hair” are signified memory-truths such as appear there before a man in the world; by the “leathern girdle” is signified the external bond connecting and keeping in order all the interior things; by “food” is signified spiritual nourishment from the knowledges of truth and of good out of the Word; by “locusts” are signified ultimate or most general truths; and by “wild honey” their pleasantness.

[9] That such things are signified by “clothing” and “food” has its origin in the representatives of the other life, where all appear clothed according to truths from good, and where food also is represented according to the desires of acquiring knowledge and growing wise. From this it is that “clothing,” or a “garment,” denotes truth (as may be seen from the citations above; and that “food” or “meat” denotes spiritual nourishment, n. 3114, 4459, 4792, 5147, 5293, 5340, 5342, 5576, 5579, 5915, 8562, 9003; that “a girdle” denotes a bond which gathers up and holds together interior things, n. 9341; that “leather” denotes what is external, n. 3540; and thus “a leathern girdle” denotes an external bond; that “hairs” denote ultimate or most general truths, n. 3301, 5569-5573; that “a camel” denotes memory-knowledge in general, n. 3048, 3071, 3143, 3145, 4156; that “a locust” denotes nourishing truth in the extremes, n. 7643; and that “honey” denotes the pleasantness thereof, n. 5620, 6857, 8056). It is called “wild honey,” or “honey of the field,” because by “a field” is signified the church (n. 2971, 3317, 3766, 7502, 7571, 9139, 9295). He who does not know that such things are signified, cannot possibly know why Elijah and John were so clothed. And yet that these things signified something peculiar to these prophets, can be thought by everyone who thinks well about the Word.

[10] Because John the Baptist represented the Lord as to the Word, therefore also when he spoke of the Lord, who was the Word itself, he said of himself that he was “not Elias, nor the prophet,” and that he was “not worthy to loose the latchet of the Lord’s shoe,” as in John:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God was the Word. And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory. The Jews from Jerusalem, priests and Levites, asked John who he was. And he confessed, and denied not, I am not the Christ. Therefore they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? But he said, I am not. Art thou the prophet? He answered, No. They said therefore unto him, Who art thou? He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said Isaiah the prophet. They said therefore, Why then baptizest thou, if thou art not the Christ, nor Elias, nor the prophet? He answered, I baptize with water; in the midst of you standeth one whom ye know not; He it is who is to come after me, who was before me, the latchet of whose shoe I am not worthy to unloose. When he saw Jesus, he said, Behold the Lamb of God, who taketh away the sin of the world! This is He of whom I said, After me cometh a man who was before me; for he was before me (John 1:1, 14, 19-30).

From these words it is plain that when John spoke about the Lord Himself, who was Truth Divine itself, or the Word, he said that he himself was not anything, because the shadow disappears when the light itself appears, that is, the representative disappears when the original itself makes its appearance. (That the representatives had in view holy things, and the Lord Himself, and not at all the person that represented, see n. 665, 1097, 1361, 3147, 3881, 4208, 4281, 4288, 4292, 4307, 4444, 4500, 6304, 7048, 7439, 8588, 8788, 8806.) One who does not know that representatives vanish like shadows at the presence of light, cannot know why John denied that he was Elias and the prophet.

[11] From all this it can now be seen what is signified by Moses and Elias, who were seen in glory, and who spoke with the Lord when transfigured, of His departure which He should accomplish at Jerusalem (Luke 9:29-31); namely, that they signified the Word (“Moses” the historic Word, and “Elias” the prophetic Word), which in the internal sense throughout treats of the Lord, of His coming into the world, and of His departure out of the world; and therefore it is said that “Moses and Elias were seen in glory,” for “glory” denotes the internal sense of the Word, and the “cloud” its external sense (see the preface to Genesis 18, and n. 5922, 8427).

188. The fourth experience ¹ .

Since I have been allowed by the Lord to see the wonders in the heavens and in the regions below the heavens, my instructions impose on me the duty of relating what I have seen.

I saw a magnificent palace, and at its heart a church. In the middle of this was a table made of gold, on which was the Word, with two angels standing by it. Seats were arranged around it in three rows. The seats of the first row were covered in silk cloth of purple colour, those of the second row in silk cloth of blue colour, those of the third row in white cloth. Beneath the roof, high above the table, was to be seen a curtain drawn across, glittering with precious stones, from which shone a radiance resembling the rainbow to be seen when the sky clears after rain. Then suddenly there appeared clergy to the same number as the seats, all dressed in their priestly vestments. At one side was a strong-box guarded by an angel, in which lay splendid vestments arranged in beautiful order.

[2] It was a council summoned by the Lord; and I heard a voice from heaven saying: 'Debate.' 'But on what subject?' they said. They were told to debate about the Lord the Saviour and the Holy Spirit. When they began to think about these subjects, they had no enlightenment; so they prayed for it, and then light poured down from heaven, which first of all lit up the backs of their heads, then their temples, and finally their faces. Then they began, speaking first as instructed about the Lord the Saviour.

The first question proposed for discussion was: who was it that took upon himself human form in the Virgin Mary? The angel who stood by the table holding the Word read to them this passage from Luke:

The angel said to Mary, Behold, you will conceive in your womb, and will give birth to a son; and you are to call his name Jesus. He will be mighty, and will be called the Son of the Most High. And Mary said to the angel, How will this be, seeing I have no knowledge of a man? And the angel answered and said, The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; hence what is born of you will be holy, and will be called the Son of god, Luke 1:31-32, 34-35.

He also read this passage in Matthew:

The angel said to Joseph in a dream, Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your betrothed, for what is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. And Joseph did not know her, until she had given birth to her first-born son; and he called his name Jesus, Matthew 1:20, 25.

In addition he read many passages from the Gospels (such as Matthew 3:17; 17:5; John 1:18; 3:16; 20:31), and many other passages where the Lord in His Human is called the Son of God, and where He from His Human calls Jehovah His Father, for instance, the passages in the Prophets which predict the coming of Jehovah Himself into the world. Among these were the following two from Isaiah:

On that day it will be said, Behold, He is our God, whom we have awaited to free us. He is Jehovah, whom we have awaited, let us exult and rejoice in His salvation, Isaiah 25:9.

The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare the way of Jehovah, make smooth in the desert a path for our God. For the glory of Jehovah will be revealed, and all flesh will see it together. Behold, the Lord Jehovih comes in might, like a shepherd will He feed His flock, Isaiah 40:3, 5, 10-11.

[3] The angel said: 'Since Jehovah Himself came into the world and took upon Himself human form, [and by this means saved and redeemed man] ² therefore in the Prophets He is called the Saviour and the Redeemer.' Then he read to them the following passages:

Only among you is God, and there is no God besides. You surely are the hidden God, the God of Israel, the Saviour, Isaiah 45:14-15.

Am I not Jehovah, and there is no God besides me, there is no righteous God and Saviour beside me, Isaiah 45:21-22.

I am Jehovah, and there is no Saviour beside me, Isaiah 43:11.

I am Jehovah your God; and you are not to acknowledge any God beside me, and there is no Saviour beside me, Hosea 13:4.

That all flesh may know that I am Jehovah your Saviour and your Redeemer, Isaiah 49:26; 60:16.

As for our Redeemer, Jehovah Zebaoth is His name, Isaiah 47:4.

Their Redeemer, the mighty Jehovah Zebaoth is His name, Jeremiah 50:34.

Jehovah, my rock and my Redeemer, Psalms 19:14.

Thus spoke Jehovah your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel, I am Jehovah your God, Isaiah 48:17; 43:3 ³ ; Isaiah 49:7; 54:8.

You are Jehovah our Father, our Redeemer from eternity is your name, Isaiah 63:16.

Thus spoke Jehovah your Redeemer, I am Jehovah the maker of everything, and I alone by myself, Isaiah 44:24.

Thus spoke Jehovah, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, Jehovah Zebaoth; I am the first and the last and there is no God beside me, Isaiah 44:6.

Jehovah Zebaoth is His name, and your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel; He will be called God of all the earth, Isaiah 54:5.

Behold, the days will come, when I shall raise up for David a righteous shoot, who will reign as King; and this is His name, Jehovah our righteousness, Jeremiah 23:5-6; 33:15-16, On that day Jehovah will be King over all the earth; on that day Jehovah will be one, and His name one, Zechariah 14:9.

[4] Both sets of passages were accepted as proofs by those who sat on the seats, and they said with one accord that Jehovah Himself took upon Himself human form to redeem and save mankind. But then a voice spoke up from the Roman Catholics, who had hidden behind the altar, saying: 'How can Jehovah God become man? Is He not the Creator of the universe?' One of those sitting in the second row of seats turned round and said: 'Who did then?' The one who had been behind the altar stood up near it and replied: 'The Son from eternity.' But he received the reply: 'Is not the Son from eternity according to your creed also the Creator of the universe? And what is the Son but God born from eternity? How can the Divine essence, which is one and indivisible, be separated so that one part of it came down, and not the whole at once?'

[5] The second debate about the Lord was whether the Father and He are one, just as the soul and the body are one. They said that this followed because the soul is from the father. Then one of those sitting in the third row read the following words from the Creed known as Athanasian:

Although our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man, still there are not two, but one Christ; indeed He is utterly one. He is one person. For as the soul and body make up one man, so God and man is one Christ.

The reader said that the Creed containing these words is accepted throughout the Christian world, including the Roman Catholics.

'What need,' they said, 'is there to go on? God the Father and the Lord are one, just as soul and body are one. Since this is so, we see that the Lord's Human is Divine, because it is the Human of Jehovah; and the Lord is to be approached in His Divine Human, because this is the only possible way to approach the Divine called the Father.'

[6] This conclusion of theirs was confirmed by the angel citing many passages from the Word, including:

A child is born for us, a son is given to us, whose name is Wonderful, Counsellor, God, Hero, the everlasting Father, the Prince of peace, Isaiah 9:6.

Also:

Abraham does not know us, and Israel does not acknowledge us. You, Jehovah, are our Father, our Redeemer from eternity is your name, Isaiah 63:16.

In John:

Jesus said, He who believes in me believes in Him who sent me, and he who sees me sees Him who sent me, John 12:44-45.

Philip said to Jesus, Show us the Father. Jesus said to him, He who has seen me has seen the Father. Why then do you say, Show us the Father? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? Believe me, I am in the Father and the Father is in me, John 14:8-11. Jesus said, I and the Father are one, John 10:30.

Also:

All things which the Father has are mine, and all of mine are the Father's, John 16:15; 17:10.

Finally:

Jesus said, I am the way, truth and life; no one comes to the Father except through me, John 14:6.

The reader went on to say that similar statements to those made here by the Lord about Himself and His Father can also be made by a man about himself and his soul. On hearing this all declared with one heart and voice that the Lord's Human is Divine, and this must be approached in order to approach the Father, because by means of the Human Jehovah God brought Himself into the world and made Himself visible to human eyes, and thus accessible. Likewise He made Himself visible and accessible to the ancients in human form, but at that time by means of an angel. But because this form represented the Lord who was to come, among the ancients everything that concerned the church was representative.

[7] This was followed by a debate about the Holy Spirit. To begin it the popular idea about God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit was presented, namely, that God the Father sits on high, the Son at His right hand, and they send out from themselves the Holy Spirit, to enlighten, teach, justify and sanctify men. But a voice was then heard from heaven, saying. 'We find this mode of thought intolerable. Surely everyone knows that Jehovah God is omnipresent. A person who knows and acknowledges this will also acknowledge that it is He who enlightens, teaches, justifies and sanctifies, and that there is no mediating God separate from Himself, much less from two other Gods, as one person is separate from another. You must therefore rid yourselves of the first idea, seeing it is meaningless, and accept this, which is correct, and then you will see this plainly.'

[8] But at this point a voice was heard from the Roman Catholics who were standing near the altar of the church, saying: 'What then is the Holy Spirit who is mentioned in the Word, in the Gospels and Paul, and by which so many of the learned clergy, especially ours, allege they are guided? Is there any Christian to-day who denies the existence of the Holy Spirit and His activity?' On hearing this one of those sitting in the second row turned round and said: 'You claim that the Holy Spirit is a person by Himself and God by Himself. But what is the meaning of a person going forth and proceeding from a person, if it is not the activity which goes forth and proceeds? One person cannot go forth and proceed from another, but his activity can. What is meant by God going forth and proceeding from God, if not the Divine which goes forth and proceeds? One God cannot go forth and proceed from another by means of a third; but the Divine can from a single God.'

[9] On hearing this the assembly in session reached the unanimous conclusion that the Holy Spirit is not a person by Himself, so not God by Himself either, but the Holy Divine which goes forth and proceeds from the one omnipresent God, who is the Lord. The angels who were standing by the golden table on which the Word was placed said to this: 'Good. Nowhere in the Old Testament do we read that the prophets spoke the Word from the Holy Spirit, but from Jehovah; and where the Holy Spirit is mentioned in the New Testament, the Divine which proceeds is meant. This is the Divine which enlightens, teaches, quickens, reforms and regenerates.'

[10] This was followed by another debate about the Holy Spirit: from whom does the Divine meant by the Holy Spirit proceed, from the Father, or from the Lord? While they were discussing this, a light shone on them from heaven which allowed them to see that the Holy Divine, meant by the Holy Spirit, does not proceed from the Father by means of the Lord, but from the Lord acted upon by the Father; as for comparison in man, his activity does not proceed from the soul by means of the body, but from the body acted upon by the soul.

This was confirmed by the angel standing at the table by these passages in the Word:

He whom the Father has sent speaks the words of God; not by measure does God give him the Spirit. The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into his hand, John 3:34-35.

A shoot will come forth from the stock of Jesse; the Spirit of Jehovah will rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and intelligence, the spirit of counsel and power, Isaiah 11:1-2.

The Spirit of Jehovah was put upon him, and was in him, Isaiah 42:1; 59:19-20; 61:1; Luke 4:18.

When the Holy Spirit comes, whom I shall send you from the Father, John 15:26.

He will glorify me, because He will take from what is mine and communicate it to you. All things that the Father has are mine. That is why I have said that He will take from what is mine and communicate it to you, John 16:14-15.

If I go away, I will send the Comforter to you, John 16:7.

The Comforter is the Holy Spirit, John 14:26.

The Holy Spirit was not yet, because Jesus was not yet glorified, John 7:39.

But after His glorification:

Jesus breathed upon the disciples and said to them, Receive the Holy Spirit, John 20:22.

And in Revelation:

Who will not glorify your name, Lord, since you alone are holy? Revelation 15:4.

[11] Since the Holy Spirit means the Lord's Divine activity from His Divine omnipresence, so when He spoke to the disciples about the Holy Spirit, which He was to send from the Father, He also said:

I will not leave you bereft; I go away and come to you; and on that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I in you, John 14:18, 20, 28.

Shortly before He left the world, He said:

Behold, I am with you always up to the ending of the age, Matthew 28:20.

After reading these passages to them the angel said: 'It is plain from these and many other passages in the Word that the Divine called the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Lord acted upon by the Father.' Those in session replied: 'This is Divine truth.'

[12] Finally the following resolution was passed: 'We have seen clearly from the deliberations in this council, and thus acknowledge as a holy truth, that in the Lord God the Saviour Jesus Christ there is a Divine Trinity, consisting of the originating Divine called the Father, the Human Divine called the Son, and the Divine which proceeds called the Holy Spirit.' And they cried out together that in Christ all the fulness of the Godhead dwells bodily (Colossians 2:9). 'Thus there is one God in the church.'

[13] When this magnificent council had reached these conclusions, its members rose; and the angel in charge came and brought from the strong-box for each of those who had taken part in the session splendid garments with here and there gold threads interwoven, and said: 'Accept these wedding garments.' Then they were taken in glory to the new Christian heaven, with which the Lord's church on earth, the New Jerusalem, is to be linked.

Footnotes: