6075. 'Both we and our fathers' means that this was so since the time of the ancients. This is clear from the meaning of 'fathers' as those who belonged to the ancient Churches, dealt with in 6050. In the Word there are many places referring to the Jews and Israelites in which their fathers are spoken of in a praiseworthy manner. People who confine themselves to the sense of the letter do not take 'fathers in those places to mean anybody other than Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and also the sons of Jacob. But in the internal sense 'fathers', in a good sense, is used to mean not them but those who belonged to the Most Ancient Church which existed before the Flood and those who belonged to the Ancient Church which existed after the Flood. Members of both were called 'fathers' because the Church came down from them and things of the Church were derived from them.

[2] 'Fathers' is used in Moses to mean those belonging to the Ancient Churches,

Your fathers Jehovah delighted to love, and He chose their seed after them. Deuteronomy 10:15.

And in the same author,

Remember the days of old, understand the Years of generation after generation. When the Most High gave to the nations an inheritance, when He separated the sons of man, He fixed the boundaries of the peoples, according to the number of the sons of Israel. But when Jeshurun became fat he forsook God. They sacrifice to demons, to gods [whom they do not know, to new ones] that have come from near by and that your fathers did not fear. ¹ Deuteronomy 32:7-8, 15, 17.

These words appear in the prophetical Song of Moses, in which verses 7-15 refer to the Ancient Church and Verses 15-44 to the descendants of Jacob. The state of the Most Ancient Church which existed before the Flood is meant by 'the days of old', and the state of the Ancient Church which existed after the Flood by 'the years of generation after generation'. Their state of good is meant by 'an inheritance which the Most High gave to the nations', and their state of truth by 'the Most High separated the sons of man, He fixed the boundaries of the peoples, according to the number of the sons of Israel', which 'number', being 'twelve', means all the truths of faith in their entirety, see 577, 2089, 2129 (end), 2130 (end), 3272, 3858, 3913. From this it is evident that 'fathers' means those who belonged to the ancient Churches. A similar meaning exists in the following places:

In Isaiah,

Our holy house, and our splendour, where our fathers praised You, has been made into a blaze of fire. Isaiah 64:11.

In Jeremiah,

Did not your father eat and drink, yet execute judgement and righteousness? Then all went well for him. Jeremiah 22:15.

In the same prophet,

They have sinned against Jehovah, the habitation of righteousness and the hope of their fathers. Jeremiah 50:7.

In David,

O God, we have heard with our ears, our fathers have told us the work You worked in their days, in the days of old. Psalms 44:1.

'Fathers' is used in the same way in Daniel 11:14, 37-38. The fact that those who belonged to the ancient Churches are meant in these places by 'fathers' is not apparent in the sense of the letter; it is seen only from the internal sense in which the Church, its forms of good, and its truths are the subject. Furthermore the Church itself - being the heavenly marriage, that is, the marriage of goodness and truth - is called 'father' in the Word in respect to goodness and 'mother' in respect to truth, 3707, 5581.

Footnotes:

31. That 'the great lights' mean love and faith, and are also mentioned as the sun, the moon, and the stars, is clear from various places in the Prophets, as in Ezekiel,

When I have blotted you out, I will cover the heavens and darken their stars, I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon will not give its light. All the bright lights in the heavens I will make dark over you, and I will put darkness over your land. Ezekiel 32:7-8.

This refers to Pharaoh and the Egyptians, who are used in the Word to mean the sensory and the factual. The meaning here is that they will have blotted out love and faith by means of sensory evidence and factual knowledge. In Isaiah,

The day of Jehovah for making the earth a desolation; for the stars of the heavens and their constellations ¹ will not give their light; the sun will be darkened in its rising, and the moon will not shed its light. Isaiah 13:9-10.

In Joel,

The day of Jehovah is coming, a day of darkness and thick darkness. The earth quakes before Him, the heavens tremble, the sun and moon are darkened, and the stars withdraw their shining. Joel 2:10.

[2] In Isaiah, in reference to the Lord's Coming and the enlightenment of gentiles, and so to a new Church, in particular to individuals who are in darkness but who are beginning to receive the light and be regenerated,

Arise, shine, for your light has come. Behold, darkness is covering the earth, and thick darkness the peoples, but Jehovah will arise upon you, and nations will walk towards your light, and kings to the brightness of your rising. Jehovah will be for you an everlasting light; your sun will no more go down nor your moon be withdrawn, for Jehovah will be for you an everlasting light. Isaiah 60:1-3, 19-20.

In David,

Jehovah makes the heavens by intelligence, He spreads out the earth upon the waters, He makes the great lights, the sun to have dominion over the day, and the moon and stars to have dominion over the night. Psalms 136:5-9.

And in the same author,

Praise Jehovah, sun and moon, praise Him, all stars of light! Praise Him, heaven of heavens, and waters that are above the heavens! Psalms 148:3-4.

[3] In all of these places 'the lights' mean love and faith. Because the lights represented and meant love and faith in the Lord, the Jewish Church was commanded to keep a light burning all the time from evening till morning, for every command which that Church received was representative of the Lord. Concerning this light it is said,

Command the sons of Israel that they take oil for the light, to cause a lamp to burn continually. In the Tent of Meeting outside the veil which is before the testimony Aaron and his sons shall tend it from evening to morning before Jehovah. [Exodus 27:20-21]

That this means the love and faith which the Lord kindles and causes to shine in the internal man, and by means of the internal man in the external man, will in the Lord's Divine mercy be shown at that point in Exodus.

Footnotes: