5512. 'And took us for men spying out the land' means that it saw the truths known to the Church as ones existing there for the sake of gain. This is clear from the representation of the sons of Jacob, to whom 'us' refers here, as the truths known to the Church that were present in the natural, dealt with in 5403, 5419, 5427, 5458; and from the meaning of 'spies' or 'men spying out the land' as people interested in the truths known to the Church solely for the sake of gain, dealt with in 5432.

2080. That 'God said' means the reply that was perceived is clear from the meaning of 'saying' as perceiving, dealt with just above in 2077. And because in the previous verse the words 'Abraham said' were used, which meant perception, and in this verse the words 'God said' (or replied) occur, a perceived reply, that is, a reply received in the form of perception, is consequently meant. All perception entails both a proposition and a reply, the perception of the two being expressed here in the historical sense by the phrases 'Abraham said to God' and 'God said'. That 'God's saying' means perceiving, see 1791, 1815, 1819, 1822, 1898, 1919, and in various places above in this chapter.