249. Talking with spirits is rarely allowed nowadays, though, because it is dangerous. ¹ The spirits then actually know that they are with us, which otherwise they would not; and evil spirits by nature harbor a murderous hatred for us and crave nothing less than our total destruction, body and soul. This is what actually goes on in people who regularly lose themselves in delusions, even to the point that they lose touch with the pleasures appropriate to their natural person.

There are some people who lead solitary lives who sometimes hear spirits talking with them without risk; but the Lord keeps these spirits a little space away so that they do not know they are with these individuals. Most spirits, you see, are not aware that there is any other world than the one they are living in or therefore that there are people anywhere else. So we are not allowed to talk back to them, since if we did, they would know.

People who are constantly thinking about religious matters, so wrapped up in them that they practically see them within themselves, also begin to hear spirits talking with them. This is because when we voluntarily get wrapped up in religious matters, no matter what kind, without the interruption of various useful activities in the [external] world, these matters enter into us very deeply and take substance there so that they occupy our whole spirit, move into the spiritual world, and affect spirits there. However, people like this are visionaries or fanatics, and no matter what spirit they hear, they believe it is the Holy Spirit, even though the spirits they hear are fanatical. Spirits like this see false things as true; and because they see them as true they convince themselves and also convince the people into whom they flow. Further, since spirits like this who command obedience have also begun to urge people to do evil things, they have gradually been moved away. Fanatical spirits can be differentiated from other spirits by the fact that they believe they are the Holy Spirit and that what they are saying is divine. They do not harm us, because we offer them divine worship.

I have talked with them on occasion and the unspeakable things they instill into their worshipers have come to light. They live all together toward the left, in a desert area.

Footnotes:

784. The implications of 'Jehovah closed the way behind him' meaning that man no longer had the kind of communication with heaven that the member of the celestial Church had had are as follows: The state of the Most Ancient Church was such that men had an inward communication with heaven, and so by way of heaven with the Lord. They were governed by love to the Lord, and people who are governed by love to the Lord are like angels, the only difference being that they are clothed with a [physical] body. Their interiors were unconcealed and lay open all the way from the Lord. But it was different with this new Church. It was governed not by love to the Lord, but in and through faith, by charity towards the neighbour. They could not have, as the most ancient people had, any inward communication, only external. It would take too long however to discuss the nature of these two kinds of communication. Everybody has a communication of some kind, including the wicked, through the angels residing with them, though there are different degrees of it, from fairly close to quite remote. Without it a person could not exist. The degrees of communication are unending. A spiritual man cannot possibly have the kind of communication that a celestial man has, the reason being that the Lord dwells in love, and less so in faith. This is what the present statement means about Jehovah closing the way behind him.

[2] Since those times heaven has never been open in the way it was for the member of the Most Ancient Church. Many people in later times have indeed talked to spirits and angels - for example, Moses, Aaron, and others - but they did so in a completely different way. This, in the Lord's Divine mercy, will be dealt with later on. The reason why heaven has been closed is a very deep arcanum, as also is the reason why it is so closed nowadays that no one knows even of the existence of spirits, let alone that angels are residing with him. He imagines that when he is not with fellow men in the world and when thinking all by himself he is completely alone. In fact however he is constantly in the company of spirits who observe and perceive very accurately what a person is thinking and what he intends and devises, as accurately and clearly as if this manifested itself for all the world to see. Of this man is not at all directly conscious, so closed is heaven to him. Nevertheless it is utterly true. The reason he is not conscious of it is that if heaven were not in this way closed to him at a time when faith is non-existent with him, still less the truth of faith, and charity even less, he would stand in very great danger. This was the meaning also of Jehovah God's casting man out and causing cherubim to dwell at the east end of the Garden of Eden, with a flaming sword turning about to guard the way to the tree of life, ¹ dealt with already in Chapter 3:14. See also 301-307.

Footnotes: