9372. And He said unto Moses. That this signifies that which concerns the Word in general, is evident from the representation of Moses, as being the Word (of which below); and from the signification of “He said,” as involving those things which follow in this chapter, thus those which concern the Word (see n. 9370). (That Moses represents the Word, can be seen from what has been often shown before about Moses, as from the preface to Genesis 18; and n. 4859, 5922, 6723, 6752, 6771, 6827, 7010, 7014, 7089, 7382, 8601, 8760, 8787, 8805.) Here Moses represents the Word in general, because it is said of him in what follows, that he alone should come near unto Jehovah (verse 2); and also that, being called unto out of the midst of the cloud, he entered into it, and went up the mount (verses 16-18).

[2] In the Word there are many who represent the Lord in respect to truth Divine, or in respect to the Word; but chief among them are Moses, Elijah, Elisha, and John the Baptist. That Moses does so, can be seen in the explications just cited above; that so do Elijah and Elisha, can be seen in the preface to Genesis 18; and n. 2762, 5247; and that John the Baptist does so is evident from the fact that he was “Elias who was to come.” He who does not know that John the Baptist represented the Lord as to the Word, cannot know what all those things infold and signify which are said about him in the New Testament; and therefore in order that this secret may stand open, and that at the same time it may appear that Elias, and also Moses, who were seen when the Lord was transfigured, signified the Word, some things may here be quoted which are spoken about John the Baptist; as in Matthew:

After the messengers of John had departed, Jesus began to speak concerning John, saying, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? a reed shaken by the wind? But what went ye out to see? a man clothed in soft raiment? Behold, they that wear soft things are in kings’ houses. But what went ye out to see? a prophet? Yea, I say unto you, even more than a prophet. This is he of whom it is written, Behold I send Mine angel before Thy face, who shall prepare Thy way before Thee. Verily I say unto you, Among those who are born of women there hath not arisen a greater than John the Baptist; nevertheless he that is less in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he. All the prophets and the law prophesied until John. And if ye are willing to believe, he is Elias who was to come. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear (Matthew 11:7-15; and also Luke 7:24-28).

No one can know how these things are to be understood, unless he knows that this John represented the Lord as to the Word, and unless he also knows from the internal sense what is signified by “the wilderness” in which he was, also what by “a reed shaken by the wind,” and likewise by “soft raiment in kings’ houses;” and further what is signified by his being “more than a prophet,” and by “none among those who are born of women being greater than he, and nevertheless he that is less in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he,” and lastly by his being “Elias.” For without a deeper sense, all these words are uttered merely from some comparison, and not from anything of weight.

[3] But it is very different when by John is understood the Lord as to the Word, or the Word representatively. Then by “the wilderness of Judea in which John was” is signified the state in which the Word was at the time when the Lord came into the world, namely, that it was “in the wilderness,” that is, it was in obscurity so great that the Lord was not at all acknowledged, neither was anything known about His heavenly kingdom; when yet all the prophets prophesied about Him, and about His kingdom, that it was to endure forever. (That “a wilderness” denotes such obscurity, see n. 2708, 4736, 7313.) For this reason the Word is compared to “a reed shaken by the wind” when it is explained at pleasure; for in the internal sense “a reed” denotes truth in the ultimate, such as is the Word in the letter.

[4] That the Word in the ultimate, or in the letter, is crude and obscure in the sight of men; but that in the internal sense it is soft and shining, is signified by their “not seeing a man clothed in soft raiment, for behold those who wear soft things are in kings’ houses.” That such things are signified by these words, is plain from the signification of “raiment,” or “garments,” as being truths (n. 2132, 2576, 4545, 4763, 5248, 6914, 6918, 9093); and for this reason the angels appear clothed in garments soft and shining according to the truths from good with them (n. 5248, 5319, 5954, 9212, 9216). The same is evident from the signification of “kings’ houses,” as being the abodes of the angels, and in the universal sense, the heavens; for “houses” are so called from good (n. 2233, 2234, 3128, 3652, 3720, 4622, 4982, 7836, 7891, 7996, 7997); and “kings,” from truth (n. 1672, 2015, 2069, 3009, 4575, 4581, 4966, 5044, 6148). Therefore by virtue of their reception of truth from the Lord, the angels are called “sons of the kingdom,” “sons of the king,” and also “kings.”

[5] That the Word is more than any doctrine in the world, and more than any truth in the world, is signified by “what went ye out to see? a prophet? Yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet;” and by, “there hath not arisen among those who are born of women a greater than John the Baptist;” for in the internal sense “a prophet” denotes doctrine (n. 2534, 7269); and “those who are born,” or are the sons, “of women” denote truths (n. 489, 491, 533, 1147, 2623, 2803, 2813, 3704, 4257).

[6] That in the internal sense, or such as it is in heaven, the Word is in a degree above the Word in the external sense, or such as it is in the world, and such as John the Baptist taught, is signified by, “he that is less in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he;” for as perceived in heaven the Word is of wisdom so great that it transcends all human apprehension. That the prophecies about the Lord and His coming, and that the representatives of the Lord and of His kingdom, ceased when the Lord came into the world, is signified by, “all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.” That the Word was represented by John, as by Elijah, is signified by his being “Elias who is to come.”

[7] The same is signified by these words in Matthew:

The disciples asked Jesus, Why say the scribes that Elias must first come? He answered and said, Elias must needs first come, and restore all things. But I say unto you, that Elias hath come already, and they knew him not, but did unto him whatsoever they wished. Even so shall the Son of man also suffer of them. And they understood that He spoke to them of John the Baptist (Matthew 17:10-13).

That “Elias hath come, and they knew him not, but did unto him whatsoever they wished” signifies that the Word has indeed taught them that the Lord is to come, but that still they did not wish to comprehend, interpreting it in favor of the rule of self, and thus extinguishing what is Divine in it. That they would do the same with the truth Divine itself, is signified by “even so shall the Son of man also suffer of them.” (That “the Son of man” denotes the Lord as to truth Divine, see n. 2803, 2813, 3704)

[8] From all this it is now evident what is meant by the prophecy about John in Malachi:

Behold I send you Elijah the prophet before the great and terrible day of Jehovah cometh (Malachi 4:5).

Moreover, the Word in the ultimate, or such as it is in the external form in which it appears before man in the world, is described by the “clothing” and “food” of John the Baptist, in Matthew:

John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judea, had His clothing of camel’s hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his food was locusts and wild honey (Matthew 3:1, 4).

In like manner it is described by Elijah in the second book of Kings:

He was a hairy man, and girt with a girdle of leather about his loins (2 Kings 1:8).

By “clothing,” or a “garment,” when said of the Word, is signified truth Divine there in the ultimate form; by “camel’s hair” are signified memory-truths such as appear there before a man in the world; by the “leathern girdle” is signified the external bond connecting and keeping in order all the interior things; by “food” is signified spiritual nourishment from the knowledges of truth and of good out of the Word; by “locusts” are signified ultimate or most general truths; and by “wild honey” their pleasantness.

[9] That such things are signified by “clothing” and “food” has its origin in the representatives of the other life, where all appear clothed according to truths from good, and where food also is represented according to the desires of acquiring knowledge and growing wise. From this it is that “clothing,” or a “garment,” denotes truth (as may be seen from the citations above; and that “food” or “meat” denotes spiritual nourishment, n. 3114, 4459, 4792, 5147, 5293, 5340, 5342, 5576, 5579, 5915, 8562, 9003; that “a girdle” denotes a bond which gathers up and holds together interior things, n. 9341; that “leather” denotes what is external, n. 3540; and thus “a leathern girdle” denotes an external bond; that “hairs” denote ultimate or most general truths, n. 3301, 5569-5573; that “a camel” denotes memory-knowledge in general, n. 3048, 3071, 3143, 3145, 4156; that “a locust” denotes nourishing truth in the extremes, n. 7643; and that “honey” denotes the pleasantness thereof, n. 5620, 6857, 8056). It is called “wild honey,” or “honey of the field,” because by “a field” is signified the church (n. 2971, 3317, 3766, 7502, 7571, 9139, 9295). He who does not know that such things are signified, cannot possibly know why Elijah and John were so clothed. And yet that these things signified something peculiar to these prophets, can be thought by everyone who thinks well about the Word.

[10] Because John the Baptist represented the Lord as to the Word, therefore also when he spoke of the Lord, who was the Word itself, he said of himself that he was “not Elias, nor the prophet,” and that he was “not worthy to loose the latchet of the Lord’s shoe,” as in John:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God was the Word. And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory. The Jews from Jerusalem, priests and Levites, asked John who he was. And he confessed, and denied not, I am not the Christ. Therefore they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? But he said, I am not. Art thou the prophet? He answered, No. They said therefore unto him, Who art thou? He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said Isaiah the prophet. They said therefore, Why then baptizest thou, if thou art not the Christ, nor Elias, nor the prophet? He answered, I baptize with water; in the midst of you standeth one whom ye know not; He it is who is to come after me, who was before me, the latchet of whose shoe I am not worthy to unloose. When he saw Jesus, he said, Behold the Lamb of God, who taketh away the sin of the world! This is He of whom I said, After me cometh a man who was before me; for he was before me (John 1:1, 14, 19-30).

From these words it is plain that when John spoke about the Lord Himself, who was Truth Divine itself, or the Word, he said that he himself was not anything, because the shadow disappears when the light itself appears, that is, the representative disappears when the original itself makes its appearance. (That the representatives had in view holy things, and the Lord Himself, and not at all the person that represented, see n. 665, 1097, 1361, 3147, 3881, 4208, 4281, 4288, 4292, 4307, 4444, 4500, 6304, 7048, 7439, 8588, 8788, 8806.) One who does not know that representatives vanish like shadows at the presence of light, cannot know why John denied that he was Elias and the prophet.

[11] From all this it can now be seen what is signified by Moses and Elias, who were seen in glory, and who spoke with the Lord when transfigured, of His departure which He should accomplish at Jerusalem (Luke 9:29-31); namely, that they signified the Word (“Moses” the historic Word, and “Elias” the prophetic Word), which in the internal sense throughout treats of the Lord, of His coming into the world, and of His departure out of the world; and therefore it is said that “Moses and Elias were seen in glory,” for “glory” denotes the internal sense of the Word, and the “cloud” its external sense (see the preface to Genesis 18, and n. 5922, 8427).

548. But that they should torment them five months, signifies that the understanding would be darkened and drawn away by the falsities of evil from seeing truth, so long as they were in that state. This is evident from the signification of "to torment," as being to have the understanding darkened and withdrawn from seeing truth (of which presently); also from the signification of "five months," as being so long as they are in that state. "To torment" here signifies to have the understanding darkened and drawn away from seeing truth, because this is said of the locusts and their power to hurt like scorpions, and "locusts" mean the ultimate of man's life, which is called the sensual, and the power to hurt like scorpions signifies a persuasiveness that can take away from the understanding the light of truth and induce infernal darkness; therefore it now follows that "their torment was as the torment of a scorpion when it striketh a man," for a "scorpion" signifies such persuasiveness (See above, n. 544). This is said "to torment," because it is said above that "the locusts should hurt men, but should not kill them;" and that which hurts but does not kill, torments; and the persuasiveness also, which is of the sensual man that is in the falsities of evil, hurts the understanding by darkening it and drawing it away from seeing truth, although it does not deprive it of the faculty to understand and perceive; and because it is compared with the pain from a scorpion "when it striketh a man," it is said "to torment."

[2] "Five months" signify so long as men are in that state, because a "month" signifies a state, and "five" signifies somewhat, and thus so long as "months" signify states, because all times in the Word, as "ages," "years," "weeks," "days," and "hours," signify the states of life (See in the work on Heaven and Hell 162-169), so likewise "months." That "five" signifies somewhat can be seen from the passages in the Word where that number occurs; for the numbers ten, one hundred, one thousand, signify much and all, therefore "five" signifies somewhat; for the numbers that signify much arise from the number five, which signifies somewhat, and composite and derived numbers take their signification from the simple numbers of which by multiplication they are composed, and from which they are derived (See above, n. 429, 430). "Five" also signifies so long as, because it is said "five months," and "months" here signify a state of duration. This signification of "five months" seems remote, because so long as man lives in the world he is in natural thought, and natural thought derives its ideas from spaces and times and also from numbers and measures; for these are proper to nature, because all things in nature are determined by them; while spiritual thought is without any determinate idea of space, time, number, and measure. For this reason it seems remote and strange to a man in the world, that "five months" should signify so long as that state, that is, a state of the persuasion of falsity continues, for so long the understanding is darkened and drawn away from seeing truth; but when the persuasion of falsity is removed man comes into the faculty to see truth if he wishes to see it, for every man has this faculty.

[3] That "five" signifies in the Word somewhat and some, likewise all such, and like things, can be seen from the following passages. In Matthew:

Jesus said that the kingdom of heaven is like ten virgins, five of whom were prudent, and five foolish (Matthew 25:1, 2).

The Lord compared the kingdom of the heavens to ten virgins, because "the kingdom of the heavens" signifies the church, as does a "virgin;" and "ten virgins" signify all who are of the church; it is said that "five were prudent and five foolish," because "five" signifies some of them, or all who are such on the one part. That a "virgin" signifies the church can be seen from many passages in the Word where mention is made of "the virgin of Zion," "the virgin of Jerusalem," "the virgin of Israel," by whom the church is signified.

[4] "Ten" and "five" have a like signification in the Lord's parable of the nobleman who gave to his servants pounds to trade with:

And one from a pound gained ten pounds; and another from a pound gained five pounds; and they were therefore to have authority over so many cities (Luke 19:13-20).

The numbers "ten" and "five" are mentioned by the Lord, because "ten" signifies much, and "five" somewhat; while "their trading" signifies gaining or purchasing heavenly intelligence; and "authority over cities" signifies intelligence and wisdom, for "city" in the Word signifies doctrine, and "to have authority over it" signifies to be intelligent and wise; and "over ten cities" signifies much, and "over five" some.

[5] Again, some and all who are such, are signified by "five" in the Lord's parable of the rich man and Lazarus:

That the rich man told Abraham that he had five brethren, and asked that Lazarus might be sent to them (Luke 16:27, 28).

The rich man said that he had "five brethren" because "five" signifies all who are such. Likewise in the Lord's parable of those who were invited to the great supper:

That one excused himself because he had bought five yoke of oxen, and must go to prove them (Luke 14:19).

"Oxen" signify in the Word natural affections, and "five yoke of oxen" signify all those affections or desires that lead away from heaven; heaven and the church in regard to spiritual nourishment or instruction are signified by "the great supper" to which they were invited. Who cannot see that the number "five" in these four parables involves an arcanum, since it was employed by the Lord?

[6] Likewise in Isaiah:

In that day there shall be five cities in the land of Egypt that speak with the lips of Canaan, and that swear to Jehovah of Hosts. In that day there shall be an altar to Jehovah in the midst of the land of Egypt (Isaiah 19:18, 19).

"In that day" signifies the Lord's coming; and "five cities in the land of Egypt speaking with the lips of Canaan" signifies that then some who are natural will become spiritual, and will acknowledge the truths of genuine doctrine, and will worship the Lord from the good of charity (this may be seen particularly explained above, n. 223. So here it is said "five cities," to mean some at that time, and also some truths of doctrine.

[7] In the same:

There shall be left in it gleanings, as in the shaking of an olive-tree, two three berries in the top of the bough, four five in the branches of the fruitful one (Isaiah 17:6).

And in Luke:

Jesus said, From henceforth there shall be five in one house divided three against two, and two against three (Luke 12:52).

That in these passages "five" signifies some, and all who are such, may be seen above (n. 532), where these passages are explained. There was a law given with the sons of Israel:

That whoever had stolen an ox, and had either killed it or sold it, should pay back five oxen (Exodus 22:1).

Here an "ox" means in the spiritual sense the good of the natural man; "to pay back five oxen for an ox" signifies that one should make sufficient amends for what he had perverted and extinguished; "to steal" means to take away, "to kill" to extinguish, and "to sell" to pervert.

[8] "The fifth part" also signifies as much as is sufficient, in Leviticus 5:16; 6:5; 22:14; 27:13, 15, 19, 27, 31; Numbers 5:6-8. Likewise:

The fifth part that Pharaoh took from the land of Egypt during the seven years of plenty (Genesis 41:34; 47:24).

Likewise:

At the fifth [rib] at which Abner smote Asahel with the hinder end of his spear (2 Samuel 2:23);

"at the fifth" signifying as much as was sufficient for death; for the same number that signifies somewhat, and all on the one part, signifies also as much as is sufficient, when it is predicated of quantity, and so long as, when it is predicated of time.

[9] As this number signifies somewhat, and all of one part, so it signifies also a little and a few whenever a great quantity that is also designated by numbers follows or precedes; for then all of one part is relatively a few. Thus in Isaiah:

One thousand shall flee at the rebuke of one; at the rebuke of five shall ye flee (Isaiah 30:17).

And in Moses:

Among the curses it was said that five should chase an hundred, and an hundred, ten thousand (Leviticus 26:8).

And in the Gospels:

That the Lord fed five thousand men with five loaves and two fishes (Matthew 14:15-22; Mark 6:38-43; Luke 9:13-16; John 6:9-13).

That they then took up "twelve baskets of fragments" signifies fullness, thus full instruction and full blessing.

[10] Again, "five" signifies few in Luke:

Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings? Yet not one of them is forgotten before God. Fear not, therefore, ye are better than many sparrows (Luke 12:6, 7).

It is said "five sparrows" because fewness and what is of little value in comparison with men are meant, for it is afterwards said, "Ye are better than many sparrows." Anyone can see that this number would not have been mentioned so often by the Lord unless it had been significative. Because "five" signifies all of one part, it was commanded:

That over the tabernacle they should make ten curtains, and the five curtains should be coupled together one to another, and the other five curtains should be coupled one to another (Exodus 26:1, 3.

That "ten" signifies all in the whole complex, and "five" all of one and of the other part, may be seen in the Arcana Coelestia 9595, 9604).