2465. Verses 31-36 And the firstborn said to the younger, Our father is old, and there is no man in the land to come to us, according to the way of all the earth. Come, let us make our father drink wine, and let us lie with him and let us keep seed alive by our father. And they made their father drink wine that night, and the firstborn came and lay with her father; and he did not know when she lay down and when she rose up. And so it was on the next day, that the firstborn said to the younger, Behold, I lay last night with my father; let us make him drink wine again tonight, and come, lie with him, and let us keep seed alive by our father. And they made their father drink wine that night also; and the younger rose up and lay with him; and he did not know when she lay down and when she rose up. And the two daughters of Lot conceived by their father.

[2] 'The firstborn said to the younger' here, as previously, means affections - 'the firstborn' meaning the affection for that kind of good, 'the younger' the affection for that kind of falsity. 'Our father is old, and there is no man in the land' means that it is no longer known what good is and what truth is. 'To come to us' means to which those affections might be joined. 'According to the way of all the earth' means according to matters of doctrine, 'earth' being the Church. 'Come, let us make our father drink wine' means that they might saturate such good with falsities, meant by the wine. 'And let us lie with him' means that in this way they would be joined together.

[3] 'And let us keep seed alive by our father' means that in this way a new kind of a Church would emerge. 'And they made their father drink wine' means that they saturated such good with falsities. 'That night' means when all things were enveloped in so much obscurity. 'And the firstborn came' means the affection for that kind of good. 'And lay with her father' means that in this way the two were brought together. 'And he did not know when she lay down and when she rose up' means that such general good knew no other than that it was so. 'And on the next day' means afterwards. 'The firstborn said to the younger' means that the affection for such good persuaded the falsity. 'Behold, I lay last night with my father' means that thus they had been joined together. 'Let us make him drink wine again tonight' means here, as previously, that they saturated such good with falsities, at a time when everything was enveloped in so much obscurity. 'And come, lie with him' means that these might be joined together as well.

[4] 'And let us keep seed alive by our father' here, as previously, means that in this way a new kind of a Church would emerge. 'And they made their father drink wine that night also' means that in that obscure state they saturated such good with falsities. 'And the younger rose up and lay with him' means that the affection for falsity acted in a similar fashion, so that falsities looked like truths, and the two were in this way joined together. 'And he did not know when she lay down and when she rose up' here, as previously, means that such a general type of good knew no other than that it was so. 'And the two daughters of Lot conceived by their father' means that this was how such a religion as that meant by 'Moab' and 'the son of Ammon' arose.

1071. That 'he drank wine' means that he wished to probe into matters of faith is clear from the meaning of 'wine'. 'A vineyard' or 'a vine', as has been shown, is the spiritual Church, or member of the spiritual Church. The grape, clusters, and bunches are its fruit, and these mean charity and what belongs to charity. Wine however means faith deriving from charity, and all things that belong to faith. Thus 'grape means the celestial aspect of that Church, and 'wine' the spiritual. The celestial, as often stated already, comprises the will, while the spiritual comprises the understanding. That 'he drank of the wine' means that he wished to probe into matters of faith, and to do so indeed by means of reasonings, is clear from the reason given why 'he was drunk', that is, sank into errors. Indeed the member of this Church did not possess any perception at all as the member of the Most Ancient Church had done. Instead he had to acquire knowledge of what good and truth were by learning about them from doctrinal matters concerning faith which had been gathered together and preserved from the perception that had existed in the Most Ancient Church. And these matters of doctrine constituted the Word of the Ancient Church. As with the Word, doctrinal matters concerning faith were in many instances such that, without perception, they could not be believed; for spiritual and celestial things infinitely transcend human comprehension, and this is why reasoning enters in. But the person who refuses to believe those things until he comprehends them is never able to believe, as often shown already. See what appears in 128, 130, 195, 196, 215, 232, 233.

[2] That 'grapes in the Word means charity and what belongs to charity, and that 'wine' means both faith deriving from charity and also matters of faith, becomes clear from the following places: In Isaiah,

My beloved had a vineyard on a very fertile hill. ¹ He looked for it to yield grapes, and it yielded wild grapes. Isaiah 5:1-2, 4.

Here 'grapes' stands for charity and the fruits of charity. In Jeremiah,

I will surely gather them, says Jehovah; there will be no grapes on the vine nor figs on the fig tree. Jer, 8:13.

'Vine' stands for the spiritual Church, 'grapes' for charity. In Hosea,

Like grapes in the wilderness I found Israel, like the first fruit on the fig tree, in the beginning, I saw your fathers. Hosea 9:10.

'Israel' stands for the Ancient Church, 'grape' for the fact that they were endowed with charity. These words are used in the contrary sense when 'Israel' stands for the sons of Jacob. In Micah,

There was no cluster to eat; my soul desired the first fruit. The holy man has perished from the earth, and there is none upright among men. Micah 7:1-2.

'Cluster' stands for charity or that which is holy, 'first fruit' for faith or that which is upright.

[3] In Isaiah,

Thus said Jehovah, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one says, Do not destroy it, for there is a blessing in it. Isaiah 65:8.

'Cluster' stands for charity, 'new wine' for goods that stem from charity, and truths deriving from these. In Moses,

He washes his clothing in wine, and His garment in the blood of grapes. Genesis 49:11.

This is a prophecy concerning the Lord. 'Wine' stands for that which is spiritual deriving from what is celestial, 'blood of grapes' for the celestial in respect to spiritual Churches. So 'grapes' stands for charity itself, 'wine' for faith itself. In John,

The angel said, Put in your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of the earth, for its grapes have ripened. Revelation 14:18.

This refers to the last times when there is no faith, that is, when there is no charity. For no faith exists other than that which inheres in charity, and in essence is charity itself. Consequently when it is said that there is no longer any faith, as in the last times, it means that there is no charity.

[4] As 'grapes' means charity, so 'wine' means faith deriving from charity, for wine is obtained from grapes. In addition to these and previous quotations concerning the vineyard and the vine, the following also make the point clear: In Isaiah,

Gladness and exaltation have been taken away from Carmel, and in the vineyards there is no singing, no joyful noise. No treader treads out wine in the presses; I have made the hedad ² to cease. Isaiah 16:10.

This stands for the fact that the spiritual Church, meant by 'Carmel', has been vastated, 'none treading wine in the presses' for the fact that no longer are there any people who possess faith. In the same prophet,

The inhabitants of the earth will be scorched and few men left. The new wine will mourn, the vine will languish; they will not drink wine with singing, strong drink will be bitter to those drinking it; there will be an outcry in the streets over wine. Isaiah 24:6-7, 9, 11.

The vastated spiritual Church being the subject, 'wine' stands for truths of faith that are considered valueless. In Jeremiah,

They will say to their mothers, Where is corn and wine? when they faint like one who has been run through in the streets of the city. Lamentations 2:12.

'Where is corn and wine?' means, Where is love and faith? 'Streets of the city' means truths here, as elsewhere in the Word. 'Those who have been run through in them' means that they do not know what the truths of faith are.

[5] In Amos,

I will bring again the captivity of My people Israel, and they will build the ruined cities and inhabit them. And they will plant vineyards and drink their wine. Amos 9:14.

This refers to the spiritual Church, meant by Israel, to which 'planting vineyards and drinking wine' is attributed when it becomes a Church such as derives faith from charity. In Zephaniah,

They will build houses but not inhabit them, and they will plant vineyards but not drink their wine. Zephaniah 1:13; Amos 5:11.

Here 'vineyard' and 'wine' stand for the contrary situation when the spiritual Church has been vastated. In Zechariah,

They will be like a mighty man of Ephraim, and their heart will rejoice as from wine, and their sons will see it and rejoice. Zechariah 10:7.

This refers to the house of Judah, that it would be such by virtue of the goods and truths of faith. In John the command not to do harm to oil and wine, Revelation 6:6, stands for doing no harm to what is celestial and spiritual, that is, to things of love and faith.

[6] In the Jewish Church, since 'wine' meant faith in the Lord, the libation of wine in the sacrifices also represented faith, as in Numbers 15:1-15; 28:11-15, 18-end; Numbers 29:7-end; Leviticus 23:12-13; Exodus 29:40. Hence the following is said in Hosea,

Threshing-floor and winepress will not feed them, and new wine will be deceptive in her. They will not dwell in Jehovah's land, but Ephraim will return to Egypt, and in Assyria they will eat what is unclean: They will not pour libations of wine to Jehovah, they will not be pleasing to Him. Hosea 9:1-4.

This refers to Israel, or the spiritual Church, and to those people in it who pervert and defile holy things and the truths of faith by wishing to probe into them by means of knowledge and reasonings. 'Egypt' is knowledge, 'Assyria' reasoning, and 'Ephraim' one who engages in reasoning.

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