The Bible generally uses two different terms for large groups: “people” and “nations.” When it uses “nation,” it is talking about a group with the desire for good as its ultimate underlying motivation; when it uses the term “people” it is talking about a group whose deep motivation is to seek true ideas and concepts. As with all symbolism in the Bible, this can be also used in a negative sense, to describe groups with the lust for evil or those driven by false concepts. It can also be used in the abstract, with “nation” representing desires for good themselves and “people” representing true ideas themselves. In a way, these meanings make sense if we look at the two words themselves. “People” brings to mind a collection of individuals, and that is somewhat how it is with ideas -- you can have many of them that inter-relate, but also stand somewhat on their own, individually. “Nation” is a more unified term, reflecting the way that a desire for good tends to unify other feelings.

5583. 'And Judah said to him' means the good which existed in the Church. This is clear from the representation of 'Judah' as the good existing in the Church, dealt with in 3654. The fact that now Judah speaks about Benjamin, whereas previously, in verses Genesis 42:36, 37 of the previous chapter, Reuben was the one to do so, is an arcanum which only the internal sense can bring to light. The same applies to the fact that when Reuben spoke about Benjamin, Jacob is referred to in Verse 36 of the previous chapter as Jacob, whereas now, when Judah is speaking about Benjamin, Jacob is referred to in verses 6, 8, 11 as Israel. No one can deny that some such arcanum lies within this, but what that arcanum is cannot possibly be known simply from the story told in the sense of the letter, as is also the case in other places where Jacob is sometimes referred to as Jacob, and at other times as Israel, 4286. The actual arcanum embodied in all this will in the Lord's Divine mercy be stated in what follows. The reason Judah is the speaker now is that the subject is the good of spiritual truth which needs to be acquired, 5582. Therefore here Judah, who represents the good existing with the Church, is the one to speak to Israel, who represents the good of spiritual truth. He also offers himself as a surety for Benjamin, who represents the intermediary; for the intermediary must be joined by means of good to what has to be acquired.