19. 17. To whom will ye liken Me, to whom am I equal? saith the Holy One. Lift up your eyes on high, and behold, who hath created these things, etc. (Isaiah 40:25-26).

(My judgment is with Jehovah, and the price of My work is with my God. Then shall I be precious in the eyes of Jehovah, and my God shall be my strength. Jehovah hath forsaken me, and the Lord hath forgotten me (Isaiah 49:4-5, 14). Because of Jehovah that is faithful and the Holy One of Israel who chooseth thee [Isaiah 49:7].)

I have given Thee for a light to the nations, that Thou mayest be My salvation unto the end of the earth. I have given Thee for a covenant of the people, to restore the earth, to divide the devastated heritages; to say to the prisoners, Go forth; to them that are in darkness, Reveal. They shall feed in the ways, and their pasture shall be on all hillsides; they shall not hunger nor thirst; by the springs of water shall He lead them (Isaiah 49:6, 8-10).

(Let him trust in the name of Jehovah, and stay upon his God (Isaiah 50:10).)

Look to me ye that follow after justice, ye that seek Jehovah; look unto the rock whence ye are hewn (Isaiah 51:1). Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of Jehovah, awake as in the days of old (Isaiah 51:9).

I will put my words in thy mouth, for the planting of the heavens, and laying the foundations of the earth (Isaiah 51:16). (My people shall know My name in that day, for I am He that doth speak: Behold, it is I. How delightful upon the mountains are the feet of Him that bringeth good tidings, that causeth to hear peace, that saith unto Zion, Thy king reigneth. Watchmen shall lift up the voice; together shall they sing when they shall see eye to eye, that Jehovah returneth to Zion (Isaiah 52:6-7).

Jehovah hath made bare the arm of His holiness in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth have seen the salvation of our God (Isaiah 52:10).

Who hath believed our word that is heard? and upon whom hath the arm of Jehovah been revealed (Isaiah 53:1)?

(The Lord is treated of throughout the chapter, and the state of His life is described here briefly in these words. That He had no form nor honor; that He was despised and not esteemed. That He was wounded on account of our transgressions, and bruised on account of our iniquities. That Jehovah hath made to light on Him the iniquity of us all. That He was brought as a lamb to the slaughter; that He was cut off from the land of the living. That because He offered His soul as a guilt offering His days were prolonged, and that the will of Jehovah prospered by His hand, in the fact that He bore their iniquities, and for them poured out His soul even unto death. That He was numbered with the transgressors, and interceded for the transgressors (Isaiah 53:1-12).

80. The fifth experience.

Once a satan was given leave to come up from hell together with a woman, and he approached the house where I was. On seeing them I shut the window, but carried on a conversation with them through it. I asked the Satan where he came from, and he said from the company of his own people.

I asked where the woman came from, and he made the same reply. She belonged to the crew of sirens. Their skill is by fantasy to put on every appearance of beauty and every adornment of dress. At one time they assume the beauty of Venus, at another the charm of countenance of a Muse, at another they deck themselves like queens in crowns and robes, and pace in regal fashion leaning on silver staves. Such women in the spiritual world are prostitutes and specialise in fantasy. They induce fantasies by thinking sensually, which blocks any ideas from a more inward mode of thinking.

I asked the Satan if she was his wife. 'What is a wife?' he replied. 'This is a term unknown to me and my community; she is my woman.' Then she roused her man's lewdness, a thing these sirens are skilled in doing. On feeling this he kissed her, saying, 'Oh my Adonis!'

[2] But to more serious matters. I asked the Satan what was his calling. 'My calling,' he said, 'is learning; don't you see the laurel wreath on my head? 'This his Adonis had conjured up by her magic arts and put on his head from behind.

'Since you come from a community,' I said, 'where there are schools of learning, tell me what you and your companions believe about God.' 'God,' he replied, 'is for us the universe, which we also call nature. Simple folk in our country call it the atmosphere, by which they mean the air; but the intelligent mean the atmosphere which is also the ether. God, heaven, angels and the like, the subject of many tales in this world, are idle words and fictions inspired by meteors, which many people here have seen flash before their eyes. Is not everything to be seen upon earth the creation of the sun? Every time it approaches in springtime are not insects born, with and without wings? Does not its heat make birds love each other and reproduce? And does not the earth, warmed by its heat, cause seed to sprout and produce fruits as its offspring? Does this not mean that the universe is God, and nature a goddess, and she as the wife of the universe conceives, bears, rears and nurtures these things?'

[3] I went on to ask what he and his community believed about religion. 'We who are educated above the ordinary level,' he replied, 'look on religion as nothing but a toy for the common people. The sensory and imaginative areas of their minds are surrounded with a sort of aura, in which religious ideas flit about like butterflies in the air. Their faith, which links these ideas into a sort of chain, resembles a silk-worm in its cocoon, from which the king of butterflies flutters forth. For the uneducated masses love images which rise above the bodily senses and the thoughts they engender, because they have a longing to fly. So they make themselves wings, so that they can soar like eagles and show off in front of the earth-bound, saying, 'Look at me!' We, however, believe what we see and love what we touch.' At this he touched his woman, saying, 'This I believe, because I see and touch it. But we throw all that sort of rubbish out of our windows of mica, and waft it away on a gale of laughter.'

[4] Then I asked his opinion and that of his companions on heaven and hell. He laughed and said: 'What is heaven but the ethereal firmament on high? What are angels but spots wandering round the sun? What are archangels but comets with their long tails, on which their company lives? What is hell but marshland full of frogs and crocodiles, which their imagination turns into devils? Everything but these ideas of heaven and hell is mere nonsense, thought up by some church dignitary to seek fame among an ignorant populace.'

He said all this exactly as he had thought in the world, unaware that he was living after death, and forgetful of everything he had been told when he first entered the world of spirits. Therefore even when asked about life after death, he replied that it was a figment of the imagination, but there might perhaps be some effluvium given off by the corpse in the grave in shape resembling a person, or something like the ghosts which some tell tales about, and this had led people to fantasise on the subject.

[5] On hearing this I could no longer stop myself bursting out laughing. 'Satan,' I said, 'you really are mad. What are you now? Are you not in shape like a person? Don't you talk, see, hear and walk? Remember that you lived in another world, which you have forgotten, and now you are alive after death, yet have been speaking exactly as you did before you died.'

He was given back his memory, and on remembering he was ashamed and cried: 'I am mad. I have seen heaven up above, and heard angels there speak things beyond description. But this was when I was a recent arrival. Now I shall remember this to tell the companions I left behind, and then perhaps they will be ashamed too.' He had it on the tip of his tongue to call them mad, but as he went down forgetfulness blotted out his memory, so that on arrival he was as mad as they were, and called what I had told him madness.

Such is the state of thought and conversation among satans after death. The name of satans is given to those who have convinced themselves of falsities until they completely believe them, and the name of devils to those who have fostered evils in their characters by living a wicked life.