4578. 'And God went up from over him in the place where He talked to him' means the Divine within that state. This is clear from the meaning of 'God going up from over him' as the Divine, for 'going up' implies a raising up to more interior aspects, and when used in connection with the Lord, to whom 'God' refers here, a raising up to the Divine, 4539; and from the meaning of 'the place where He talked to him' as that state. 'Place' means state, see 2625, 2837, 3356, 3387, 4321, and therefore 'the place where He talked to him' means the state that He was passing through.

450. There were some who seemed in the world to be more enlightened in the Word than anybody else. They had conceived so false an idea of heaven that they imagined they would be in heaven when they were high up, and that from that position they would be able to rule the things below, and so be in their glory and be pre-eminent. Because they entertained such a false notion, and in order that they might know how mistaken they were, they were conveyed up high and from there they were allowed to rule to some extent over things below. Then, to their shame, they began to realize that this heaven was a delusion and that heaven did not consist in being high up, but that it existed wherever the individual was in whom love and charity abided, that is, who had the Lord's kingdom within himself. Nor did it consist in wishing to be pre-eminent, for wishing to be greater than others is not heaven, but hell.