3293. Two nations are in thy womb. That this signifies the natural as to interior and exterior good, that there is conception, is evident from the signification of “nations,” as being goods, especially the goods of the church (see n. 1159, 1258, 1260, 1416, 1849); and that here the goods which are in the natural are signified, is evident from the fact that Esau and Jacob, who were then in the womb, represent the Lord’s Divine natural, as will become very evident from what follows, where they are treated of. The natural, like the rational, consists of good and truth; the good in the natural is all that which is of natural affection, and is called delight; but the truth is all that which is of the memory, and is called memory-knowledge. These two must be in the natural for there to be any natural. By itself, memory-knowledge abstractedly from any delight which is of affection, is not anything; for the natural has its life from the delight within it; and from this derives its ability to know anything; whereas delight, which is the good of the natural, is something without memory-knowledge; but only such a vitality as infants have. In order therefore for the natural to be human it must consist of both, the one being perfected by the other; but it has its real life from good.

[2] As regards this good which is here treated of, it is twofold, interior and exterior; the interior good communicates with the interior man, that is, with the rational; while the exterior good communicates with the external man, that is, with the things of the body, and makes the life in the external senses, and also in the actions. Without this twofold communication, man cannot live either as to the reason or as to the body. It is the interior communication which abides with man after death, and then makes his natural life, for a spirit also has natural life, inasmuch as his spiritual life is terminated in the natural as in an ultimate plane; for immediately after death a man is not able to think spiritually, except from the things that belong to his natural. The exterior communication, however, is that which a man has while he lives in the body, but this ceases by the death of the body. All this shows what is signified by “two nations in the womb,” namely the natural as to interior and exterior good. “In the womb,” in the internal sense, signifies conception, therefore it is here said “that there is conception.”

1258. And from these were spread abroad the nations in the earth. That this signifies that from them came all the worships of the church in respect to goods and evils, and that these are meant by the “nations,” is evident from the signification of “nations.” By a nation, as has been explained before, are meant many families together. In the Most Ancient and in the Ancient Church, the many families which acknowledged one father constituted one nation. But as to “nations” signifying in the internal sense the worships of the church, and this in respect to the goods or evils in the worship, the case is this: when families and nations are viewed by the angels, they have no idea of a nation, but only of the worship in it; for they regard all from the quality itself, that is, from what they are. The quality or character of a man, from which he is regarded in heaven, is his charity and faith. This anyone may clearly apprehend if he considers that when he looks at any man, or any family, or nation, he thinks for the most part of what quality they are, everyone from that which is dominant in himself at the time. The idea of their quality comes instantly to mind, and in himself he estimates them from that. Still more is this the case with the Lord; and, from Him, with the angels, who cannot but regard a man, a family, and a nation, from their quality in respect to charity and faith. And hence it is that in the internal sense by “nations” nothing else is signified than the worship of the church, and this in respect to its quality, which is the good of charity and the derivative truth of faith. When the term “nations” occurs in the Word, the angels do not abide at all in the idea of a nation, in accordance with the historical sense of the letter, but in the idea of the good and truth in the nation that is named.