2960. 'What is that between me and you?' means that he gave his assent yet still wished to achieve it by himself, that is to say, to be prepared or reformed. This becomes clear from the sense of the letter when applied to the internal sense in which reformation is the subject. Above, Ephron said, 'The field I give to you, and the cave that is in it I give to you' verse 11, and by this was meant their will to prepare themselves as regards those things that constitute the Church and faith, that is, to reform themselves. For the first state of those who are being reformed is such, see 2946; but when they are more advanced in cognitions of truth or faith, they have entered their second state. Then they do indeed give assent, yet they still wish to achieve it by themselves. It is this state which is dealt with in this verse, while the third state when they believe that their reformation is effected by the Lord will be described next.

[2] The reason these people are such at first has been stated above in 2946. But when they become more advanced in cognitions of truth or faith they do indeed acknowledge that their reformation is effected by the Lord, yet they still wish to achieve it by themselves. One reason for this is that the cloud of ignorance is dispersed only gradually; another is that it takes time for truth to be corroborated; and another is that the perfection of good comes with the acquisition of cognitions of truth. Good itself that has truth implanted in it leads people not only to acknowledge but also to believe that reformation comes from the Lord. This state is the third, and a fourth follows it, that is to say, a state when they perceive that it comes from the Lord. Few however attain it during their lifetime since it is an angelic state; but those who are regenerate do attain it in the next life. From this it is evident that in the internal sense here the member of the spiritual Church is described - the nature of his state when he has yet to develop, the nature of it when he starts to develop, and at length when he has developed.

2699. 'For I will make him into a great nation' means the spiritual Church. This is clear from the meaning of 'a great nation' as the spiritual Church which was to receive the good of faith, dealt with above in 2669. The expression 'a great nation' is used because the spiritual kingdom is the Lord's second kingdom, also dealt with in that same paragraph. As the member of the spiritual Church is represented by Ishmael, so also is the spiritual Church itself represented by him, as well as the Lord's spiritual kingdom in heaven; for the image and likeness of the one exists in the other. The first state following desolation was described in the previous verse, which was a state of comfort and of the hope of help. Their second state following desolation is described in the present verse, which is a state of enlightenment and of renewal resulting from this enlightenment.

[2] Since these states are unknown in the world, for the reason mentioned previously that few at the present day are being regenerated, let the nature of this state be described as it is experienced by those who are being regenerated in the next life, where that state is very well known. After being comforted with the hope of help, those in the next life who have experienced vastation or desolation are raised up by the Lord into heaven, thus from a state of shade, which is a state of ignorance, into a state of light, which is a state of enlightenment and of resulting renewal, and so into joy which stirs their inmost feelings. It is indeed light into which they enter, of such a nature that it enables them to see not only with their eyes but also at the same time with their understanding. How much this light renews them may become clear from the contrary state from which they have been released. At that time some who have had a childlike disposition and whose faith has been simple appear to themselves in dazzling white garments. Some appear wearing crowns. Some are taken round to many angelic communities and are everywhere received charitably as brothers; and therefore all good that is gratifying to their new life is offered to them. Some are allowed to observe the vastness of heaven, that is, of the Lord's kingdom, and at the same time to discern the blessedness of those who are there, in addition to countless other things there which defy description. Such is the state of initial enlightenment, and of the feeling of renewal resulting from this, of all who come out of desolation.