65. 3. The description of the battle between the ram and the goat in Daniel shows that in the Word, goats mean people who are devoted to a faith divorced from caring. Spiritually understood, everything in Daniel, like everything in Sacred Scripture as a whole (as noted in Sacred Scripture 5-26), is about matters of heaven and the church. This then holds true for what it says in chapter 8 about the battle between the ram and the goat, as follows:

In a vision I saw a ram that had two tall horns, the taller of which rose up behind [the other]. With its horn the ram pushed westward, northward, and southward and became enormous.

Then I saw a goat that came from the west across the surface of the whole earth; it had a horn between its eyes. It charged at the ram in the fury of its strength, broke the ram’s two horns, and cast the ram to the ground and trampled it. The large horn of the goat was broken, and four horns sprang up in its place. A little horn came out of one of them, which grew tremendously toward the south, toward the dawn, and toward the glory, and even to the host of the heavens, and cast down to earth some of the host and some of the stars, and trampled them. The goat even exalted itself toward the Leader of the Host, and took the daily offerings away from him and cast down the dwelling place of his sanctuary, because it cast truth to the ground. And I heard a holy one saying, “How long will this vision last concerning the daily offerings and this destructive sinning, the trampling of the holy place and the host?” And he said, “Until the evening [and] the morning: then the holy place will be set right.” (Daniel 8:2-14)

1884. In the case of the second - described by 'carried away by the spirit into another place' - I have been shown what it is and what it is like through actual experience, but only two or three times, of which let merely one experience be described. Walking through the streets of a city and through countryside, and being at the same time engaged in conversation with spirits, I knew no other than that I was fully awake and seeing things as at other times, so that I walked on without going astray. Yet during all that time I was in a vision, seeing groves, rivers, palaces, houses, people, and many other things. But after I had walked for several hours in this fashion I suddenly found myself seeing with my physical eyes, and I realized that I was in another place. In my utter astonishment I recognized that I had been in the kind of state experienced by people who are said to have been 'carried away by the spirit into another place', for while it all lasts no thought is given to the route that is taken, even though it were one of many miles. Nor is any thought given to the time involved, even though it were a matter of many hours or days. Nor are there any feelings of tiredness. Furthermore that person is led along paths unknown to him until the destination is reached. This happened to me so that I might know that the Lord can lead a person without his knowing where he has come from or is going to.