57. I spoke with some of those people about the keys given to Peter, asking whether they believed the Lord's power over heaven and hell was transferred to him. Since this is a fundamental point in their religious system, they strongly insisted on it, saying that there was no doubt at all about it, since it is plainly stated. When I asked whether they knew that the details of the Word contain a spiritual sense, and that this is how the Word is understood in heaven, they started by saying that they did not. But later they said that they would enquire, and on doing so they were taught that the details of the Word contain a spiritual sense, which is as different from the literal sense as what is spiritual is from what is natural. Moreover, they were taught that none of the names used in the Word has that meaning in heaven, but there something spiritual is understood instead. Finally they were informed that instead of Peter there is meant in the Word the church's truth of faith coming from the good of charity. Rock, which is mentioned along with Peter, has a similar meaning, for we read:

You are Peter and upon this rock ¹ I will build my church. Matthew 16:18.

This does not mean that any power was given to Peter, but to truth arising from good; for all power in the heavens belongs to truth arising from good, or to good acting by means of truth, and because all good and truth come from the Lord, and nothing is from man, all power belongs to the Lord.

On hearing this they were indignant and wanted to know whether that was the spiritual sense of the words. So they were given the Word as it is in heaven, which contains the spiritual but not the natural sense, since it is for angels, and they are spiritual. On the existence of such a Word in heaven see HEAVEN AND HELL 259-261. When they read this they saw plainly that there was no mention of Peter in it, but in his place truth from good coming from the Lord. ¹ On seeing this they angrily rejected the Word, and would almost have torn it in pieces with their teeth, if it had not been instantly snatched away. Thus they were convinced, although against their will, that that power belongs to the Lord alone; far less does it belong to any human being, because it is Divine.

Poznámky pod čarou:

5225. 'And there was no one to interpret them for Pharaoh' means that no knowledge existed of what was going to happen. This is clear from the meaning of 'interpreting' as knowing what was going to happen, dealt with in 5141, and therefore 'no one to interpret' means no knowledge of it since 'no one' in the internal sense means the absence and so non-existence of some reality. For the idea of a person is converted in the internal sense into that of some reality. For example, the idea of a man, husband, woman, wife, son, daughter, boy, or virgin is converted into the idea of some truth or form of good. Or, as above in 5223, the idea of a magus and a wise man is converted into that of factual knowledge, interior and exterior. The reason for this is that in the spiritual world, that is, in heaven, angels' attention is fixed not on persons but on spiritual realities. For persons narrow an idea down and focus it on some finite thing, whereas spiritual realities do not involve any such narrowing down or focusing but spread to what is Infinite, and so to the Lord. This explains too why in heaven no one ever perceives a person mentioned in the Word; instead they perceive the reality represented by that person. Nor for the same reason does anyone in heaven perceive a people or nation, only its essential nature. Indeed in heaven they have no knowledge at all of any historical detail in the Word about any person, nation, or people; consequently they have no knowledge of who Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, or the people of Israel are, nor of who the Jewish people are. Instead they perceive what is represented by Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, the people of Israel, the Jewish people, and so on with everything else. This explains why angelic language has no limitations and is also a universal one compared with other languages.