5431. 'And he said to them' means the consequent perception. This is clear from the meaning of 'saying' as perception, dealt with in 1791, 1815, 1819, 1822, 1898, 1919, 2080, 2619, 2862, 3509.

1822. That 'He said to him' means perception is clear from what has been stated above at verses 2 and 7. Perception itself is nothing else than a certain form of conversing that takes place inwardly, but which makes itself known whenever the spoken word is grasped perceptively. Every form of inward dictate, even conscience, is nothing else; but perception is a higher or more interior degree of it.