5251. And Pharaoh said unto Joseph. That this signifies the perception of the celestial of the spiritual from the natural, is evident from the signification of “saying” in the historicals of the Word, as being to perceive (as often shown above); and from the representation of Pharaoh, as being the natural (see n. 5079, 5080, 5095, 5160); and from the representation of Joseph, as being the celestial of the spiritual (n. 4286, 4592, 4594, 4963, 5086, 5087, 5106, 5249). That the perception of the celestial of the spiritual from the natural is signified, is because the Lord is represented both by Joseph and by Pharaoh-by Joseph as to the celestial of the spiritual, and by Pharaoh as to the natural. Hence by “Pharaoh said unto Joseph” is signified the Lord’s perception from the celestial of the spiritual in the natural. But what and of what quality this perception is, cannot be told so as to be apprehended, unless there has first been formed some idea of spiritual perception, and of the celestial of the spiritual, and also of the manner in which the natural is distinct from the spiritual. On these subjects some things have indeed been said already, which should now be recalled.

5095. Of the king of Egypt. That this signifies which were subordinate to the interior natural, is evident from the representation of Pharaoh or the king of Egypt in this chapter, as being a new state of the natural (n. 5079, 5080), consequently the interior natural, for this was made new. What the interior natural is, and what the exterior, may be seen just above (n. 5094). What is the nature of the internal sense in the historic and prophetic portions of the Word, must be briefly told. Where several persons are mentioned in the historic sense-as here Joseph, Pharaoh, the prince of the guards, the butler and the baker-in the internal sense they indeed signify various things; but only in one person. The reason is that names signify things, as for instance Joseph here represents the Lord as to the celestial spiritual from the rational and also in the natural, Pharaoh represents Him as to the new state of the natural or as to the interior natural, the butler and the baker represent Him as to those things which are of the exterior natural. Such is the internal sense; and it is the same in other places, as where Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are mentioned. In the sense of the letter these are three persons, but in the supreme sense all three represent the Lord-Abraham the Divine Itself, Isaac the Divine intellectual, and Jacob His Divine natural. It is the same in the prophets, where sometimes the narration consists of mere names, such as those of persons, kingdoms, or cities, and yet in the internal sense these names together present and describe one thing. One who is not aware of this may easily be led away by the sense of the letter into thinking of a variety of things, and thus the idea of one thing is dissipated.