6250. 'And said, Whose are these?' means and regarding their origin, that is to say, a perception regarding it. This is clear from the meaning of 'saying' as perception, dealt with above in 6220; and from the meaning of whose are these?' as a question regarding their origin. For in the internal sense putting questions denotes knowledge gained by perception, see 2693, 6132.

6220. 'That [someone] said to Joseph' means a pre-eminent discernment. This is clear from the meaning of 'saying' as perception, dealt with in 1791, 1815, 1819, 1822, 1898, 1919, 2080, 2619, 2682, 3509, 5687. The reason a pre-eminent discernment is meant is that the subject in what follows is the Church's understanding and will, thus its truth and good, which come from an inflowing through the celestial internal, which is 'Joseph'.