'Ishmael' signifies the Lord's merely human rational and rationality separate from good.

In Genesis 25:12, 'Ishmael' signifies the spiritual church.

(Odkazy: Arcana Coelestia 1944)

3216. So that an even better knowledge may be had of the nature of representatives in the next life, that is to say, of the things that are seen in the world of spirits, let several examples also be given. When with angels a discussion is taking place about matters of doctrine regarding charity and faith, there is sometimes seen in that lower sphere where the corresponding community of spirits is situated the visible idea of a city or of cities with palaces in them. The architecture of these is so astounding that you would say architectural art itself existed there and was the inspiration of everything there. In addition the houses there are of varying appearance. And the marvel of it is that in every single palace or house not even the smallest point or tiniest visible detail exists that does not represent some aspect of the idea and discussion among the angels. From this it becomes clear how countless the details are which they contain, and also what was meant in the Word by the cities seen by prophets - what is meant by the Holy City or New Jerusalem, and also by the cities mentioned in the prophetical part of the Word, namely matters of doctrine regarding charity and faith, 402, 2449.