4690. 'And his brothers said to him' means the adherents to faith separated from charity. This is clear from the representation of 'Joseph's brothers' as the Church which turns aside from charity to faith and at length separates faith from charity, dealt with in 4665, 4671, 4679. The more internal members of that Church however were meant by the sheaves seen in the dream, 4686, 4688. The reason 'Joseph's brothers' represent that Church is that in the proximate sense they mean that which was a representative of the Church, that is, the semblance of religion established among the descendants of Jacob. They did not, it is true, know anything of faith such as the Christian Church knows of, but they knew of truth. Truth for them consisted in the same things as faith does for Christians. What is more, the same word is used in the original language for both faith and truth. But by truth the Jewish Church meant the Ten Commandments, and also the laws, judgements, testimonies, and statutes which were handed down to it through Moses. Interior aspects of truth they neither knew nor wished to know.

[2] The Christian Church however applies the term faith to matters of doctrine which constitute the more internal features of the Church and are called matters of belief. For by faith the ordinary people understand nothing other than that contained in the Creeds or that taught by books expounding the Creeds. But those who think that matters of doctrine concerning faith or knowledge of these cannot save anyone, and that few lead the life of faith, call faith confidence. But these are above the ordinary people and are more learned than others. From these considerations one may see that the subject at this point in the internal sense is not only that representative of the Church which had been established among the descendants of Jacob but also the Christian Church that followed it. For the Lord's Word is all-embracing and in general includes every Church. Indeed the Lord foresaw what the Christian Church would be like no less than what the Jewish Church would be like, though more immediately or proximately in the case of the Jewish. This is why this sense is called the proximate or internal historical sense, and the other the internal sense.

4706. 'Of their father' means of the Ancient Church and of the Primitive Church. This is clear from the meaning of 'father' here, who in this case is Jacob, as the Ancient Church, dealt with above in 4680 (end). Regarding the Primitive Christian Church being meant too, see 4690 (end), the term Primitive Church being used to mean the Christian Church when it first began. In general the Word describes four separate Churches. There is the Church existing before the Flood, named Man; this is called the Most Ancient Church. Then there is the Church existing after the Flood; this is referred to as the Ancient Church. Also there is the Church existing among the descendants of Jacob which was not a Church but a representative of the Church, which is also called a semblance of religion. And there is the Church which was established after the Lord's Coming and is called the Christian Church; this Church when it first began is referred to as the Primitive Church.