5225. 'And there was no one to interpret them for Pharaoh' means that no knowledge existed of what was going to happen. This is clear from the meaning of 'interpreting' as knowing what was going to happen, dealt with in 5141, and therefore 'no one to interpret' means no knowledge of it since 'no one' in the internal sense means the absence and so non-existence of some reality. For the idea of a person is converted in the internal sense into that of some reality. For example, the idea of a man, husband, woman, wife, son, daughter, boy, or virgin is converted into the idea of some truth or form of good. Or, as above in 5223, the idea of a magus and a wise man is converted into that of factual knowledge, interior and exterior. The reason for this is that in the spiritual world, that is, in heaven, angels' attention is fixed not on persons but on spiritual realities. For persons narrow an idea down and focus it on some finite thing, whereas spiritual realities do not involve any such narrowing down or focusing but spread to what is Infinite, and so to the Lord. This explains too why in heaven no one ever perceives a person mentioned in the Word; instead they perceive the reality represented by that person. Nor for the same reason does anyone in heaven perceive a people or nation, only its essential nature. Indeed in heaven they have no knowledge at all of any historical detail in the Word about any person, nation, or people; consequently they have no knowledge of who Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, or the people of Israel are, nor of who the Jewish people are. Instead they perceive what is represented by Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, the people of Israel, the Jewish people, and so on with everything else. This explains why angelic language has no limitations and is also a universal one compared with other languages.

5223. 'And he sent and called all the magi of Egypt, and its wise men means in consulting factual knowledge, interior as well as exterior. This is clear from the meaning of 'the magi' in the good sense as interior factual knowledge, dealt with below, and from the meaning of 'wise men' as exterior factual knowledge, also dealt with below. The reason 'the magi and wise men of Egypt' means factual knowledge is that Egypt had been one of the kingdoms where the representative Ancient Church existed, 1278, 2385. But in Egypt the facts known to that Church were the particular objects of care and attention, being knowledge about correspondences, representatives, and meaningful signs. For that knowledge was used to explain what had been written in the books of the Church, and to explain the things that were done in their sacred worship, 4749, 4964, 4966. This was how it came about that 'Egypt' meant factual knowledge in general, 1164, 1165, 1186, 1462, as did 'Pharaoh' its king too. The leading people among them who were well-versed in and imparted that knowledge were called magi and wise men. The magi were those well-versed in mystical knowledge, the wise men those well-versed in non-mystical, so that the facts known to the magi were interior ones, while those known to the wise men were exterior. This explains why such factual knowledge is meant in the Word by those two kinds of men. But after they began to misuse the Church's interior factual knowledge and to turn it into magic, Egypt', and likewise 'the magi of Egypt and its wise men', began to mean factual knowledge that led to perversions.

[2] The magi in those times had a knowledge of the kinds of things that belong to the spiritual world, and in their teaching about these they employed the correspondences and the representatives known to the Church. For this reason many of those magi also communicated with spirits and learned the arts of illusion which they used to perform miracles that involved magic. But those who were called the wise men had no interest in anything like this. Instead they provided the answers to hard questions and taught about the causes lying behind natural things. It was primarily in arts such as these that the wisdom of those times consisted, and the ability to practise them was called wisdom. This becomes clear from what is recorded about Solomon in the first Book of Kings,

Solomon's wisdom surpassed the wisdom of all the sons of the east, and all the wisdom of the Egyptians, so much so that he was wiser than all people - than Ethan the Ezrahite, and Heman, and Chalcol, and Darda, the sons of Mahol. He spoke three thousand proverbs, and his songs were one thousand and five. In addition he spoke about trees, from the cedars which are in Lebanon even to the hyssop which comes out of the wall. He also spoke about beasts, and about birds, and about creeping things, and about fish. Therefore they came from all peoples to hear the wisdom of Solomon, from all kings of the earth who had heard about his wisdom. 1 Kings 4:30-34.

Also there is what is recorded about the queen of Sheba in the same book,

She came to test him with hard questions; and Solomon gave her an explanation for every matter she mentioned. ¹ There was not a matter ² hidden from the king for which he could not give her an explanation. 1 Kings 10:1 and following verses.

[3] From this one may see what was described in those times as wisdom and who exactly those people were who were called wise men, not only in Egypt but also elsewhere - in Syria, Arabia, and Babel. But in the internal sense 'the wisdom of Egypt' means nothing else than knowledge about natural things, while 'that of the magi' means knowledge about spiritual realities, so that exterior factual knowledge is meant by 'the wise men', and interior factual knowledge by 'the magi', 'Egypt' meaning knowledge in general, 1164, 1165, 1186, 1462, 4749, 4964, 4966.

Egypt and its wise men had no other meaning in Isaiah,

The princes of Zoan are foolish, the counsel of the wise counsellors of Pharaoh has become brutish. How does one say to Pharaoh, I am a son of the wise, a son of the kings of old? Where are your wise men now? Isaiah 19:11-12.

[4] The fact that the term 'magi' was applied to those who had a knowledge of spiritual realities, and who also for that reason received revelations, is clear from the magi who came from the east to Jerusalem, asking where the King of the Jews was to be born and saying that they had seen His star in the east and had come to worship Him, Matthew 2:1-2. The same is also clear from Daniel, who is called the chief of the magi in Daniel 4:9. And in another place,

The queen said to King Belshazzar, There is a man in your kingdom in whom is the spirit of the holy gods. And in the days of your father, light and intelligence and wisdom, like the wisdom of the gods, were found in him. Therefore King Nebuchadnezzar your father set him up as chief of the magi, diviners, Chaldeans, and determiners. Daniel 5:11.

And in yet another place,

Among them all none was found like Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah; for when they were to stand before the king, every matter of wisdom [and] understanding which the king asked of them exceeded ten times [that of] all the magi, the diviners who were in his kingdom. Daniel 1:19-20.

[5] It is well known that in the contrary sense 'magi' ³ is used to mean those who pervert spiritual realities and thereby practise magic, like those mentioned in Exodus 7:9-12; 8:7, 19; 9:11. For magic is nothing else than a perversion, being the perverted use of those kinds of things that constitute true order in the spiritual world, a perverted use that gives rise to magic. But at the present day such magic is called natural, for the reason that no recognition exists any longer of anything above or beyond the natural order. People refuse to accept the existence of anything spiritual unless one means by this an interior dimension of what is natural.

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