4892. 'And they said' means perception received from truths. This is clear from the meaning of 'saying' in the historical descriptions of the Word as perceiving, dealt with in 1791, 1815, 1819, 1822, 1898, 1919, 2080, 2619, 2862, 3509. Perception received from truths is meant because it was 'the men of the place' who spoke - 'the men of the place' meaning truths, see just above in 4889.

2515. 'And said to him' means thought springing from this, that is to say, from the perception. This is clear from the meaning of 'saying' as perceiving, and also as thinking, dealt with above in 2506. Since it is said here that the thought was derived from the perception, let a brief statement be made about thought. There are thoughts that derive from perception, thoughts that derive from conscience, and thoughts that derive from no conscience. Thoughts deriving from perception exist with celestial people only, that is, with those who are moved by love to the Lord. Such thought is the most internal to exist with man; and it exists with celestial angels in heaven. Perception from the Lord is the means and the source of their thought, and thinking contrary to perception is an impossibility. Thoughts deriving from conscience are of a lower order and exist with spiritual people, that is, with those who in life and in doctrine are moved by good that stems from charity and faith. For them as well, thinking contrary to conscience is an impossibility, for that would be thinking contrary to the good and truth which the Lord dictates to them by means of conscience.

[2] Thoughts deriving from no conscience however exist with people who do not allow themselves to be governed inwardly by good and truth but by evil and falsity, that is, not by the Lord but by themselves. They imagine that they think inwardly just as much as those who do so from conscience and perception, the reason being that they do not know what conscience is, still less what perception is, though the difference between their thought and that of people thinking from conscience or perception is as great as that between hell and heaven. People whose thought is devoid of conscience think from every evil desire and false notion, and so from hell. When they think in any other manner they do so from an outward respectability for the sake of reputation. But people who think from conscience do so from affections for good and truth, and so from heaven. As for the Lord's thought however, this surpasses all human understanding, for it sprang directly from the Divine.