4190. And Jacob took a stone, and set it up for a pillar. That this signifies such truth and the derivative worship, is evident from the signification of a “stone,” as being truth (see n. 643, 1298, 3720); and from the signification of a “pillar,” as being the derivative worship, that is, the worship which is from truth (n. 3727). From this it is manifest that such truth and the derivative worship are signified by these words. It is said “such truth,” namely, such as exists with the Gentiles; for although the Gentiles know nothing about the Word, and accordingly nothing about the Lord, they nevertheless have external truths such as Christians have; as for instance that the Deity is to be worshiped in a holy manner, that festivals are to be observed, that parents are to be honored, that we must not steal, must not commit adultery, must not kill, and must not covet the neighbor’s goods; and thus such truths as those of the Decalogue; which also are for rules of life within the church. The wise among them observe these laws not only in the external form, but also in the internal. For they think that such things are contrary not only to their religious system, but also to the general good, and thus to the internal duty which they owe to man, and that consequently they are contrary to charity, although they do not so well know what faith is. They have in their obscurity somewhat of conscience, contrary to which they are not willing to act, and in fact some of them cannot do so. From this it is evident that the Lord rules their interiors, although they are in obscurity; and thus that He imparts to them the faculty of receiving interior truths, which they do also receive in the other life. (See what has been shown above respecting the Gentiles, n. 2589-2604.)

[2] It has at times been given me to speak with Christians in the other life concerning the state and lot of the Gentiles outside of the church, in that they receive the truths and goods of faith more easily than do Christians who have not lived according to the precepts of the Lord; and that Christians think cruelly about them, in assuming that all who are out of the church are damned, and this from the received canon that without the Lord there is no salvation. This indeed, as I have said to them, is true; but the Gentiles who have lived in mutual charity, and have done from a kind of conscience what is just and equitable, receive faith and acknowledge the Lord more easily in the other life than those within the church who have not lived in such charity. Moreover Christians are in what is false, in believing that heaven is for them alone, because they have the book of the Word, written on paper but not in their hearts; and because they know the Lord, and yet do not believe that He is Divine as to His Human; but acknowledge Him only as a common man in respect to His other essence, which they call His human nature, and therefore when left to themselves and their own thoughts, they do not even adore Him. Thus it is they who are out of the Lord, for whom there is no salvation.

2129. There are likewise other kinds of tumults, or rather of conflicts, which also present the idea of a Last Judgment, and by which societies that have been evilly combined in respect to their interiors are dissolved, concerning which I may relate what follows. Such spirits are driven into a state in which they do not think in society or communion in the usual way, but each one for himself. From their thoughts thus at variance, and the confused sound of their jarring speech, an uproar is heard, as of many waters, and a conflict among them, such as cannot be described, that arises from the confusion of opinions concerning fixed and certain truths which are then the subjects of their thoughts and speech, and which uproar is of such a character that it may be called a spiritual chaos.

[2] The sound of the conflicting and confused roarings was threefold. One sound flowed in around the head, and was said to be that of the thoughts. Another sound flowed in toward the left temple, and was said to be the conflict of their reasonings about certain truths in which they were not willing to have faith. The third sound flowed in from above at the right, and was a gnashing one, but not so confused, and the gnashing was turned this way and that, and it was said that this was because the truths that were being turned in this manner this way and that by their reasonings, were in conflict. While these conflicts were going on there were other spirits besides who spoke to me and told me what each thing signified, and their speech penetrated distinctly through those sounds.

[3] The subjects of the reasonings were especially these: whether it is to be understood according to the letter that the twelve apostles are to sit upon twelve thrones and judge the twelve tribes of Israel; also, whether any others are to be admitted into heaven than those who have suffered persecutions and miseries. Each one reasoned according to his phantasy, which he had caught in the life of the body. But some of them who had been brought back into communion and order, were afterwards instructed that the statement concerning the apostles is to be understood in an entirely different manner; namely, by the “apostles” are not meant apostles, nor by “thrones,” thrones, nor by “tribes,” tribes, nor in fact by “twelve,” twelve; but by all these terms—“apostles,” “thrones,” “tribes,” and also by “twelve,” are signified the primary things of faith (see n. 2089); and it is from these and according to them that judgment is effected upon everyone. It was further shown that the apostles cannot judge even one man, but that all judgment is of the Lord alone.

[4] And as regards the other subject of reasoning, neither is this to be understood as meaning that those only are to come into heaven who have suffered persecutions and miseries; but that the rich will enter heaven just as much as the poor, those posted in dignity just as much as those in low condition; and that the Lord has mercy on all, especially on those who have been in spiritual miseries and temptations, which are persecutions by the evil-thus on those who acknowledge that of themselves they are wretched, and who believe that it is solely of the Lord’s mercy that they are saved.