4311. That in the internal historical sense by for I have seen God faces to faces, and my soul is delivered, is signified that He was present representatively, is evident from the signification of “seeing God faces to faces,” when these words are predicated of the state in which the posterity of Jacob were, as being that the Lord was present representatively; for to see God faces to faces in the external form and with the bodily sight, is not to see Him present (n. 4299). That He was not present as with those who are regenerate, and thereby are in spiritual love and faith, is manifest from what has been said of that nation (n. 4281, 4288, 4290, 4293)—that they were in external worship, and not at the same time in internal, or what is the same, in bodily and worldly, and not in spiritual and heavenly love. With such the Lord could never be present except representatively.

[2] What it is to be present representatively, must be briefly told. A man who is in bodily and worldly love and not at the same time in spiritual and heavenly love, has none but evil spirits with him, even when he is in a holy external; for good spirits cannot possibly be present with such a person, because they at once perceive in what kind of love a man is. There is a sphere which is exhaled from his interiors, which spirits perceive as manifestly as a man perceives by his sense of smell offensive and foul vapors floating around him in the air. That nation which is here treated of, was in such a state as to good and truth, or as to love and faith. In order, however, that they might serve as the representative of a church, it was miraculously provided by the Lord that when they were in a holy external, and were at the same time surrounded by evil spirits, the holy in which they were might yet be uplifted into heaven; and this by good spirits and angels not within but without them, for within them there was nothing but emptiness or uncleanness. Communication was therefore given not with the man himself, but with the holy itself in which they were when they fulfilled the statutes and precepts given them, which were all representative of spiritual and heavenly things of the Lord’s kingdom. This is signified by the Lord’s being present with that nation representatively. But the Lord is present in a very different way with those within the church who are in spiritual love and thence in faith. With these there are good spirits and angels not only in their external worship, but also at the same time in their internal; and therefore with them there exists a communication of heaven with themselves; for the Lord flows into them through heaven through their internals into their externals. To these the holy of worship is profitable in the other life, but not to the former.

[3] It is similar with priests and elders who preach holy things, and yet are in evil life and evil belief. With these there are not good, but evil spirits, even when they are in worship that appears holy in the external form. For it is the love of self and of the world, or a love for securing honors and acquiring gain and thereby fame, that fires them and presents an appearance of affection for what is holy, sometimes to such a degree that no simulation is perceived, nor is at the time believed by them to exist; when yet they are in the midst of evil spirits, who are then in a similar state, and who breathe upon them and into them. That evil spirits can be in such a state, and are so when they are in their externals, and are inflated with the love of self and of the world, has been given me to know by manifold experience, which of the Lord’s Divine mercy will be described hereafter at the end of the chapters. Such preachers have no communication with heaven in themselves; and yet those have who hear and receive the words from their mouth, if they are in a pious and holy internal; for it matters not from whom the voice of good and truth flows forth, provided their life is not manifestly wicked; for this life causes a scandal.

[4] That the nation descended from Jacob was of such a character (namely, that they were surrounded with evil spirits, and yet the Lord was present with them representatively), may be seen from many passages in the Word; for they were very far from worshiping Jehovah with the heart, and as soon as miracles were lacking, they immediately turned to other gods and became idolaters. This was a manifest proof that at heart they worshiped other gods and confessed Jehovah with the mouth only, and this merely for the reason that they might be the greatest and have preeminence over all the nations round about. That this people at heart worshiped an Egyptian idol, and only confessed Jehovah with the mouth on account of His miracles (with Aaron himself among them), is plainly evident from the golden calf which Aaron made for them, and this but a month after they had seen such great miracles on Mount Sinai, besides those which they had seen in Egypt (see Exodus 32). That Aaron also was of the same character is plainly stated at verses 2 to 5, (Exodus 32:2-5) and especially in (Exodus 32:35) verse 35. The same appears also from many other passages in Moses, in the book of the Judges, in the books of Samuel, and in the books of the Kings.

[5] That they were only in external worship and not in any internal worship, is evident also from the fact that they were forbidden to come near to Mount Sinai when the Law was promulgated, and were told that if they touched the mountain, they should surely die (Exodus 19:11-13; 20:16, 19). The reason was that their internal was unclean. It is also said in Moses:

That Jehovah dwelt with them in the midst of their uncleannesses (Leviticus 16:16).

The quality of that nation is evident also from the song of Moses (Deuteronomy 32:15-43), and from many passages in the Prophets. From all this it may be known that with that nation there was not any church, but only a representative of a church, and that the Lord was present with them only representatively.

[6] Compare also what has previously been stated in regard to them:

That with the posterity of Jacob there was a representative of a church, but not a church (n. 4281, 4288);

That the representative of a church was not instituted with them until after they had been altogether vastated as to a holy internal, and that they would otherwise have profaned holy things (n. 3398, 4289);

That when they remained in their statutes they could represent, but not when they turned aside from them (n. 3881 at the end);

That on this account they were kept strictly in rituals, and that they were driven thereto by external means (n. 3147, 4281);

That their worship was made external without internal in order that they might serve as a representative of a church (n. 4281);

That for this reason also the interior things of the church were not disclosed to them (n. 301-303vvv2, 2520, 3398, 3479, 3769);

That they were of such a nature that they could more than others be in a holy external without an internal (n. 4293);

That for this reason they have been preserved to this day (n. 3479);

And that their holy external does not affect them at all as to their souls (n. 3479).

4299. For I have seen God faces to faces, and my soul is delivered. That this signifies that He endured the most grievous temptations as if they were from the Divine, is evident from the signification of “seeing God,” as being an approach to Him through things interior, namely, goods and truths, hence denoting presence (see n. 4198); and from the signification of “faces,” as being things interior (n. 1999, 2434, 3527, 3573, 4066), consequently the thoughts and affections, for thoughts and affections are interior things, because they are of the animus and of the mind, and manifest themselves in the face; and from the signification of “my soul is delivered,” as being to endure, namely, the Divine presence. That by all these things is signified that He endured the most grievous temptations as if they were from the Divine, cannot appear except from the causes of temptations both proximate and remote. The proximate causes are the evils and falsities in the man, which lead him into temptations, consequently the evil spirits and genii who pour them in (n. 4249). Nevertheless no one can be tempted (that is, undergo any spiritual temptation) except him who has conscience; for spiritual temptation is nothing else than torment of conscience; and consequently none can be tempted except those who are in celestial and spiritual good, for these have conscience, and all others have not, and do not even know what conscience is.

[2] Conscience is a new will and a new understanding from the Lord; thus it is the Lord’s presence in a man; and this the nearer, in proportion as the man is in the affection of good or of truth. If the Lord’s presence is nearer than in proportion as the man is in the affection of good or of truth, the man comes into temptation. The reason is that the evils and falsities which are in the man, tempered by the goods and truths that are in him, cannot endure a nearer presence. This may be seen from the things that take place in the other life: that evil spirits cannot possibly approach any heavenly society without beginning to feel anguish and torment; also that evil spirits cannot endure to have angels look upon them, for they are instantly tortured and fall into a swoon; and also from the fact that hell is remote from heaven, for the reason that it cannot endure heaven, that is, the Lord’s presence which is in heaven. This is the reason why it is said of such in the Word:

Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall upon us; and to the hills, Hide us (Luke 23:30).

And elsewhere:

They shall say to the mountains and to the rocks, Fall down upon us, and hide us from the face of Him that sitteth upon the throne (Revelation 6:16).

Moreover the foggy and pitch-dark sphere which exhales from the evils and falsities of those who are in hell appears like a mountain or rock, under which they are hidden (see n. 1265, 1267, 1270).

[3] From all this it can now be known that the words, “I have seen God faces to faces, and my soul is delivered,” signify the most grievous temptations as if they were from the Divine. Temptations and torments appear as if from the Divine, because, as before said, they come forth through the Lord’s Divine presence; but still they are not from the Divine, or from the Lord, but from the evils and falsities which are in him who is being tempted or tormented. For from the Lord nothing proceeds but the Holy which is good and true and merciful. This Holy, which is good and true and merciful, is what those who are in evils and falsities cannot endure, because they are opposites or contraries. Evils, falsities, and unmercifulness are continually intent upon doing violence to these holy things; and insofar as they assault them, so far they are tormented; and when they assault them, and are consequently tormented, they suppose that it is the Divine which torments them. These things are what are meant by the words “as if they were from the Divine.”

[4] That no one can see Jehovah face to face, and live, was known to the ancients, and this knowledge was handed down from them to the posterity of Jacob; for which reason they rejoiced so greatly when they saw an angel and yet lived. As in the book of Judges:

Gideon saw that he was the angel of Jehovah; and therefore Gideon said, Lord Jehovih! Forasmuch as I have seen the angel of Jehovah face to face. And Jehovah said unto him, Peace be unto thee, fear not, thou shalt not die (Judg. 6:22-23).

In the same book:

Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God (Judg. 13:22).

And in Moses:

Jehovah said unto Moses, Thou canst not see My faces, for man shall not see Me, and live (Exodus 33:20).

[5] When it is said of Moses that he spoke with Jehovah face to face (Exodus 33:11), and that Jehovah knew him face to face (Deuteronomy 34:10), the meaning is that Jehovah appeared to him in a human form adapted to his reception, which was external, namely, as an old man with a beard, sitting with him—as I have been instructed by the angels. It was from this also that the Jews had no other idea of Jehovah than as of a very old man, with a long and snowy beard, who could do greater miracles than other gods. Not that they accounted Him the most holy, for what holiness was they did not know; still less that they could by any possibility see the Holy that proceeds from Him, because they were in bodily and earthly love, without any holy internal (n. 4289, 4293).