169. When the angelic spirits from that world came into view, they hailed us asking who we were and what we wanted. We said we were travellers who had been brought to their abode, and they had nothing to fear from us. For they were afraid that we were some of those who disturb their ideas of God, faith and suchlike; it was to avoid them they had retreated in that direction towards their world, seeking somewhere they could escape them. Asked what ideas these visitors used to disturb them, they replied the idea of three [Persons], and of a Divinity in God with no human feature, when all the time they know and perceive that God is one and is a man. Then we grasped that those who upset them and whom they avoided, were from our world. This was also evident from the fact that it is those from our world who in the next life travel around as the result of the fondness and pleasure they take in travel, which they acquired in the world. For in other worlds people do not travel like this. Later we learned that they were monks, who had travelled our globe with the purpose of converting the heathen. We therefore told them that they were right to avoid them, since their motive is not teaching, but gaining advantage and taking control. At first, we said, they aim to ensnare people's minds by various means, but they end up by making them into slaves under their orders. Moreover, we said, they were right not to let such people upset their concept of God.

[2] They went on to say that their visitors also confused them by saying that the spirits of that world ought to have faith and believe what their visitors said. Their reply to this was that they did not know the meaning of faith or believing, since they could perceive in themselves that a thing was so. They came from the Lord's celestial kingdom, where interior perception allows everyone to know truths which we call matters of faith. They are enlightened by the Lord, and in this differ from those in the spiritual kingdom. A further sign that the angelic spirits of that world came from the celestial kingdom was the sight of a flame, which is the source of their ideas. For the light in the celestial kingdom is like a flame, but in the spiritual kingdom brilliant white.

Those from the celestial kingdom when speaking about truths never say more than 'yes, yes' or 'no, no'; they never reason about whether a matter is so or not. It is these of whom the Lord says:

Your speech is to be 'yes, yes, no, no'. Anything further is from evil. [Matthew 5:37]

This is why those spirits said they did not know what it was to have faith or believe. They regard this as being as if someone told his companion, who could see houses or trees with his own eyes, that he ought to have faith or believe they were houses or trees, when he can clearly see that they are. That is the nature of those from the Lord's celestial kingdom, and of these angelic spirits. ¹

[3] We told them that there are few in our world endowed with interior perception, because when they are young they learn truths which they do not put into practice. A person has two faculties, called the intellect and the will. Those who only allow truths into their memory and so a little way into the intellect, and not into their life, that is, into the will, being unable to have any enlightenment or inward sight from the Lord, say that things must be believed or one must have faith. They also reason about truths, asking whether they are true or not; in fact, they are unwilling to have them perceived by any inward sight or any kind of enlightenment through the intellect. They say this because truths for them are devoid of light from heaven, and those who see without light from heaven can see falsities as truths and truths as falsities. As a result many people in this world have become so blinded, that, even though a person does not put truths into practice, or live by them, they still say he can be saved by faith alone; as if a person's humanity did not come from and depend on the way he lives, but on knowing such things and believing them without living by them.

[4] Afterwards we talked with them about the Lord, about love directed to Him and towards the neighbour, and about regeneration. We said that loving the Lord means loving the commandments He gives, which is living according to them out of love. ² Love towards the neighbour is wishing and consequently doing good to one's fellow citizen, one's country, one's church and the Lord's kingdom, not selfishly so as to be noticed or to earn merit, but from an affection for good. ³ On regeneration we said that those who are regenerated and put truths at once into practice in their lives, come to be able to perceive them inwardly. But those who first take truths into their memory, and then wish for and do what they demand are those who have faith; for they act from faith, which is then called conscience. The spirits said that they perceived this was so, and hence could see what faith was. I spoke with them by means of spiritual ideas, which allow such matters to be presented and grasped lucidly.

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10574. 'And he said, Cause me, I beg you, to see Your glory' means discernment on the external level of Divine Truth within. This is clear from the representation of 'Moses' here as the external aspect of the Church, worship, and the Word which was not so separate from the internal as it was with that nation, dealt with in 10563, 10571; from the meaning of 'causing to see' as discerning, dealt with in 2150, 3764, 4567, 4723, 5400; and from the meaning of 'Jehovah's glory' as the internal sense of the Word, dealt with in the Preface to Genesis 18, and in 5922, 9429. From all this it is evident that 'Moses said, Cause me, I beg You, to see Your glory' means discernment of what exists internally within the external aspects of the Word, the Church, and worship.

[2] This meaning of those words may also be recognized from what has gone before in this chapter, for there the subject in the internal sense is the Israelite nation and the fact that the Church could not be established among them, because they were incapable of receiving anything internal. Reception of what constitutes the Church internally consists in receiving Divine Truth from heaven, and heavenly love thereby. Since that is the subject in the internal sense, and yet Moses was insistent that Jehovah should lead them into the land of Canaan, by which the establishment of the Church is meant, Moses now says, 'Cause me to see Your glory', by which discernment on the external level of Divine Truth within is therefore meant.

[3] By 'Jehovah's glory' is meant that which is Divine but such as Moses was incapable of discerning. This is perfectly clear from what follows in the present chapter. In those verses it says that he could not see Jehovah's face, as His glory is called there, but that after He had passed through he would see His back parts, and that he would do so from the cleft of the rock, meaning that he would discern only the external things of the Church, worship, and the Word, and not the internal ones. That 'Jehovah's glory' has this kind of meaning is evident from its being stated several times that they saw Jehovah's glory, when it was in fact a cloud positioned over Mount Sinai, or else over or within the tent, that was being called such, see Exodus 16:10; 24:16-17; 40:34-35; Numbers 16:42; and elsewhere. 'The cloud' in these places, which was called 'the glory of Jehovah', means the outward form that the Church, worship, and the Word take, or the literal sense of the Word, see Preface to Genesis 18, and 4060, 4061, 5922, 6343(end), 6752, 8106, 8781, 9430, 10551.

[4] The reason why 'Jehovah's glory' means the inner substance of the Word, the Church, and worship is that Divine Truth emanating from the Lord, as it exists in heaven, constitutes Jehovah's glory; for Divine Truth emanating from the Lord is seen there as light. The Lord's appearance within that light is what is meant in the truest sense by 'Jehovah's glory'; and by the Lord's appearance one should understand all the things there which come from the Lord, which are countless and are referred to by the general terms 'celestial' and 'spiritual'. The reason why the inner substance of the Word, the Church, and worship is meant by 'Jehovah's glory' is that it dwells in that light. The outward form however dwells in the light of the world, which is why that outward form is meant in the Word by 'the cloud'. From this it is evident that the internal sense of the Word is 'the glory'.

[5] From all this it may now become clear what is meant in the following places by 'the glory of Jehovah' and by His 'light', as in Isaiah,

Arise, shine, for your light has come, and the glory of Jehovah has risen upon you. Behold, darkness is covering the earth, and thick darkness the peoples. But Jehovah will arise upon You, and His glory will be seen over You. Nations will walk to Your light, and kings to the brightness of Your rising. Your sun will no longer go down and Your moon will not be withdrawn, for Jehovah will be to You an everlasting light. Isaiah 60:1-3, 20.

This refers to the Lord's Coming. 'Light' here means the Divine Truth emanating from the Lord, and 'His glory' and 'the brightness of His rising' mean everything visible in that light which has regard to the Lord, and to faith in Him and love to Him. 'The darkness' and 'the thick darkness' which are 'covering the earth and the peoples' mean the dimness of faith and love, for these words are used of the Church to be established among the gentiles. From this it follows that the light and glory which will arise and be seen, and to which nations and kings will walk, means Divine Truths regarding the Lord, and regarding faith in Him and love to Him, which are derived from Him.

[6] In the same prophet,

I Jehovah have called You in righteousness, and have given ¹ You as a covenant of the people ² , a light of the nations. I am Jehovah, that is My name; My glory I will not give to another. Isaiah 42:6, 8.

This too refers to the Lord, who is called 'a light of the nations' because He is the source of all Divine Truth, and 'Jehovah's glory' because He is the object of all faith and love. In the same prophet,

Your light will break forth like the dawn; your righteousness will walk before you, the glory of Jehovah will gather you up. Isaiah 58:8.

Here the meaning is similar.

[7] In the same prophet,

Rejoice with Jerusalem, be delighted by the splendour of her ³ glory. Isaiah 66:10-11.

'Jerusalem' here as in other places means the Church, and 'the splendour of her glory' the love of truth derived from the Lord. In Zechariah,

I will be to her a wall of fire round about, and I will be for glory in the midst of her. Zechariah 2:5.

This as well refers to Jerusalem, meaning the Church. 'Glory in the midst of her' means the Lord Himself in respect of all the aspects of truth and good that constitute faith and love. Here it is self-evident that 'glory' is used to mean the things that belong intrinsically to Divine light.

[8] The same is so in John,

... the holy Jerusalem, having the glory of God, and its light was like a most precious stone. The glory of God will give it light, and its lamp is the Lamb. The nations that are saved will walk in His light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory and honour into it. Its gates will not be shut by day, for there will be no night there. They will bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. Revelation 21:11, 23-26.

'The holy Jerusalem' here means the Church that is going to take the place of the one existing at the present day. The things that compose the Church - that is, those that constitute faith in the Lord and love to Him, which are derived from Him - are described by the light and glory there. Because 'glory' is used to mean the things that are a product of the light the words 'the glory of God will give it light' are used. Anyone who weighs these verses up, considers what they are really saying, and does not confine himself to the words alone can see that everything contained in this description serves to mean those kinds of things which compose the Church. But as for the meaning that each specific detail possesses, this the internal sense teaches; for nothing in the Word, not one syllable, is devoid of meaning.

[9] In Luke,

My eyes have seen Your salvation, which You have prepared before the face of all peoples, a light for revelation to the gentiles ⁴ , and the glory of Your people Israel. Luke 2:30-32.

These words occur in Simeon's prophecy regarding the Lord after His birth. 'A light for revelation to the gentiles' means Divine Truth emanating from the Lord, and 'the glory of the people Israel' everything that has been revealed by the Lord - everything regarding Himself, and regarding faith in Him and love to Him - among those who are receptive of these things. Everything that has been so revealed by Him is called 'the glory', because it is seen in heaven and in the light there, that light being Divine Truth. By 'the children of Israel' those who believe in and love the Lord should be understood.

[10] The fact that the Lord in respect of Divine Truth is 'light' and also 'glory', which is a product of the light, is evident from the Lord's own words, in John,

They delighted in the glory of men (homo) more than in the glory of God. I have come as light into the world in order that everyone who believes in Me may not remain in darkness. John 12:43, 46.

And in the same gospel,

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was the true light which enlightens every person coming into the world. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us; and we saw His glory, glory as of the Only Begotten from the Father. John 1:1, 9, 14.

'The Word' means Divine Truth, and so does 'light'; and 'glory' means everything regarding the Lord that presents itself within that light.

[11] These places have been quoted from the Word because 'glory' and 'light' are mentioned together in them; and they have been quoted to make people aware that 'light' means Divine Truth that comes from the Lord, thus the Lord Himself in respect of Divine Truth, and that 'glory' means everything that is a product of the light, consequently everything that springs from the Divine Truth composing the intelligence and wisdom which angels possess, and which people in the world who receive the Lord in faith and love possess. The like is meant by 'glory' in other places, as in John,

I desire that they also may be with Me where I am, in order that they may see My glory. John 17:24.

In Luke,

Ought not the Christ to have suffered this and to enter into His glory? Luke 24:26.

In Matthew,

Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn; and they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and glory. Matthew 24:30.

[12] Here 'the clouds' is used to mean Divine Truth as it is in the light of the world, thus as it is among people there, and 'glory' to mean Divine Truth as it is in the light of heaven, thus as it is among angels. And since Divine Truth is meant by both 'the cloud' and 'the glory', both senses of the Word, the external and the internal, are meant by them, the external sense being meant by 'the cloud' and the internal by 'the glory'. Also what is seen in the light of the world is a cloud in comparison with what is seen in the light of heaven. For these meanings of 'the cloud', see Preface to Genesis 18, and 4060, 4391, 5922, 6343(end), 6752, 8106, 8443, 8781, 9430, 10551.

[13] This explains why the term 'the glory' is also used in the Word to denote the cloud, as in Exodus,

The glory of Jehovah was seen in the cloud. Exodus 16:10.

And in another place,

The glory of Jehovah dwelt over Mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it six days. But the sight of Jehovah's glory was like a devouring fire on the top of the mountain before the eyes of the children of Israel. Exodus 24:16-17.

And in another place in Exodus,

The cloud covered the tent of meeting, and the glory of Jehovah filled the dwelling-place. And Moses could not enter, because the cloud dwelt over it, and the glory of Jehovah filled the dwelling-place. Exodus 40:34-35.

In Numbers,

When the congregation gathered against Moses and against Aaron, and looked towards the tent of meeting, behold, the cloud covered it, and the glory of Jehovah appeared. Numbers 16:42.

In the first Book of Kings,

The cloud filled the house of Jehovah, so that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud; for the glory of Jehovah filled the house of Jehovah. 1 Kings 8:10-11.

And in the Book of Revelation,

The temple was filled with smoke and the glory of God. Revelation 15:8.

[14] Because the Divine was seen in the form of a cloud, 'the cloud' means the Divine presence; and where the Divine presence exists, so does Divine Truth. Without Divine Truth the Divine is not seen, for the Divine resides within and constitutes it. This is the reason why in these quotations the cloud is denoted by the term 'the glory'; nor was there any other way in which that glory could be seen by the Israelite nation, on account of their interest in external things alone without anything internal, see 6832, 8814, 8819, 10551. Nevertheless cloud and glory are as distinct from each other as the light of the world and the light of heaven are, or as the literal sense of the Word and its internal sense are, or as human wisdom and angelic wisdom are.

From all this it may now be recognized that 'Moses said, Cause me, I beg You, to see Your glory' means a request that he may be shown what is Divine within. And since Moses represented the outward or external form that the Church, worship, and the Word take, discernment on the external level of Divine Truth within is meant.

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