5605. 'And we will rise up and go, and we will live and not die' means spiritual life entered into by degrees. This is clear from the meaning of 'rising up' as a raising up to higher or more internal things, and therefore to those that constitute spiritual life, dealt with in 2401, 2785, 2912, 2927, 3171, 4103, 4881; from the meaning of 'going' as living, dealt with in 3335, 3690, 4882, 5493 (and since 'and we will live' follows, 'going' means the earliest stage of spiritual life); from the meaning of 'living' as spiritual life, for no other kind of life is meant in the internal sense of the Word; and from the meaning of 'not dying' as standing condemned no longer, that is, standing outside a state of condemnation, for no other kind of death is meant in the internal sense of the Word than spiritual death, which is condemnation. From all this it is evident that 'we will rise up and go, and we will live and not die' means life entered into by degrees. That is to say, an introductory phase leading into life is meant by 'rising up', the earliest stage of that life by 'going', that life fully under way by 'living', and guidance away from everything alien to that life by 'not dying'.

[2] The idea that living is meant in the internal sense by 'going' will seem strange to one who does not know anything about spiritual life. But much the same is involved here as with the expression 'travelling on', namely an ordered life and a further stage of life, 1293, 4375, 4554, 4585; receiving instruction and leading a life in keeping with it, 1463, 2025, 3672. The reason why 'going', 'travelling on', and 'sojourning' have these meanings can, it is true, be stated; yet it is the kind of reason that makes little sense to those who have no knowledge of the exact nature of people's movements in the next life. Moving about and advancements made by people there are nothing else, since they have no other origin, than changes in their states of life. Such changes present themselves in outward actions as nothing other than advances from one place to another. The truth of this has been proved to me from many an experience I have had in the next life. In my spirit I have walked with and among those there, and have moved through their many dwelling-places; and I have done so even though my body remained all the time in the same place. I have talked to them about how this could be so and have learned that changes in their states of life are what constitute the advances people make in the spiritual world.

[3] The same has also been proved to me by the fact that spirits are able, through changes of state that are effected, to be somewhere high up and then in an instant somewhere deep down, or to be far away in the west and then in an instant in the east, and so on. But, as stated, this is bound to seem strange to someone who does not know anything about life in the spiritual world. For in that world no intervals of space or of time exist, but states of life instead of these. Such states produce externally a visible scene with all the appearance of life involving advances and movement. The scene that appears is so vivid and real that it is an appearance of life itself; that is to say, the appearance is that life exists inherently within us, and so is essentially our own, when in actual fact life flows into us from the Lord, the source from which all life involves much the same, namely and the expression 'sojourning springs, see 2021, 2658, 2706, 2886-2888, 3001, 3318, 3337, 3338, 3484, 3619, 3741-3743, 4151, 4249, 4318-4320, 4417, 4523, 4524, 4882. Because 'going' and 'moving' mean living, the ancients had the saying, In God we move, and live, and have our being. By 'moving' they meant the external degree of life, by 'living' the internal degree, and by 'having one's being' the inmost degree.

4882. 'And went' means life. This is clear from the meaning of 'going' as living, dealt with in 3335, 3690. This meaning of 'going' in the internal sense as living does indeed seem quite remote from or unrelated to ideas man has which constitute his thought. The reason for this is that man dwells within space and time, and with these has formed the ideas comprising his thought, such as the idea of going, advancing, setting out, sojourning, or moving on. Now because these actions occur within both space and time, and as a consequence space and time have become embedded in ideas of those actions, man therefore finds it difficult to grasp that states of life are meant. But when his idea of those actions is relieved or divested of spatial and temporal elements the spiritual reality that is meant leaps out. For in the spiritual world or heaven nothing at all spatial or temporal enters the ideas they have, but instead aspects of a state of life, 1274, 1382, 2625, 2788, 2837, 3356, 3404, 3827, 4814. It does indeed appear to spirits and angels that they too move about, going from one place to another, and indeed exactly in the same way as it appears so to men. All the same, it is the changes taking place in their state of life that are responsible for this appearance. To them also, no less than to men, the appearance is that they live self-dependently, when in fact they do not live self-dependently but are dependent on the Lord's Divine, the source of every spark of life. Among angels these appearances are called real ones, because they seem in all reality to exist.

[2] I have on occasions spoken to spirits about these appearances, but those who are not governed by good, nor consequently by truth, do not wish to listen when told it is but an appearance that they live self-dependently; for their wish is to live self-dependently. But in addition to showing them from actual experience that they do not lead self-dependent lives and that every advance made from one place to another is a change to, and an advance made in, their state of life, I have also told them that for them it may be sufficient for them to know no other than that they live self-dependently, and that their life would be life no more if they did not live self-dependency. It would nevertheless be better for them to know what the situation really is, for in that case they would have the truth; and if they have the truth they also dwell in the light of heaven, since the light of heaven is the truth itself which flows from the Lord's Divine. Furthermore, if the truth existed with them in this way they would not claim that good was their own, nor would evil cling to them. Angels possessing that truth do not merely know it; they also have a perception of it.

[3] Intervals of time and space in the spiritual world are states of life, and every spark of life has its origin in the Lord, as the following experience may show. Each spirit and angel sees on his right those who are good and on his left those who are evil; this is so in whatever direction he turns himself. If he turns and looks eastwards he sees the good to the right and the evil to the left. The same happens if he turns and looks to the west, and likewise to the south or the north. This is the case with every spirit or angel, so that if there were two, and one of these turned and looked to the east and the other did so to the west, each would still see the good on his right and the evil on his left. Those far removed from, even behind the backs of, those who behold them are seen in those unchanging positions. From these considerations one may deduce clearly that every spark of life has its origin in the Lord, that is, that the Lord is within the life of everyone; for in the spiritual world the Lord is seen as the Sun, the good or sheep being on His right, and the evil or goats on His left. The same is therefore the case with each spirit or angel, for the reason, as stated, that the Lord exists in every spark of life. This is bound to look like a paradox to man, for as long as he is in the world man has ideas that are formed from worldly things, and therefore from what is spatial and temporal. But as stated above, in the spiritual world no ideas are formed from what is spatial and temporal but from the state belonging to affections and the thoughts flowing from these. It is for this reason also that the intervals of space and time in the Word mean states.