389. Verses 9-11. And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those slain because of the Word of God, and because of the testimony that they held. And they cried out with a great voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost Thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And there were given to every one of them white robes; and it was said unto them that they should rest yet a little time, until their fellow-servants, as well as their brethren, who were to be killed, as they also were, should be fulfilled.

9. "And when he had opened the fifth seal," signifies still further prediction (n. 390); "I saw under the altar," signifies those who were preserved under heaven n. 391; "the souls of those slain because of the Word of God, and because of the testimony that they held," signifies those who were rejected and concealed because of Divine truth and because of their confession of the Lord. n. 392).

10. "And they cried out with a great voice," signifies their grief of mind (n. 393); "saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost Thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?" signifies sighings to the Lord, who is Righteousness, respecting the judgment and removal of those who persecute and infest those who acknowledge the Lord, and are in the life of charity n. 394.

11. "And there were given to every one of them white robes," signifies Divine truth from the Lord with them, and protection n. 395; "and it was said unto them they should rest yet a little time," signifies some further continuance in that state (n. 396); "until their fellow-servants, as well as their brethren, who were to be killed, as they also were, should be fulfilled," signifies until all things were consummated n. 397.

3219. When angels are engaged in discussion about thoughts and ideas, and about influx, birds are seen at the same time in the world of spirits - the forms which the birds take being determined by the subject under discussion. This explains why birds in the Word mean rational concepts or things comprising thought, 40, 745, 776, 991. On one occasion birds came into view, and I saw that one was dark and ugly, two fine and beautiful. When I saw them, behold! certain spirits were there who then descended on me so violently as to send a tremor into my sinews and bones. I supposed that then, as had happened several times before, evil spirits were assailing me in an attempt to destroy me; but that was not so. When the tremor ceased and the spirits who had descended on me stopped moving, I spoke to them asking what it was all about. They said that they had fallen from a certain angelic community in which discussion was taking place about thoughts and influx, and that they had been of the opinion that the things which comprise thought flow in from without, that is to say, by way of the external senses, as is the appearance. But the angelic community in which they were present were of the opinion that it flowed from within. And because they themselves had been governed by falsity they had fallen from there. No one had cast them down, for angels do not cast anyone down from among themselves. It was owing to the falsity reigning in them that they had fallen from there. This had been the reason why it had happened. From this I was given to know that discussion in heaven about thoughts and influx is represented by birds - the discussion of those in whom falsity reigns by dark and ugly birds, but that of those who are governed by truth by fine and beautiful birds. I was at the same time told that all the ideas comprising thought enter into it from within, not from without, even though those ideas seem to do so. I was also told that it is contrary to order for what is posterior to flow into what is prior, or what is grosser into what is purer, and so for body to flow into soul.