5782. 'And Judah said' means a perception imparted to the good of the Church in the natural. This is clear from the meaning of 'saying' in the historical narratives of the Word as perception, dealt with often (it is an imparted perception because all perception comes from the internal, that is, it flows in from the Lord by way of the internal, 5779); and from the representation of 'Judah' as the good of the Church, dealt with in 5583, 5603, 5775. Regarding Judah's representation, it should be recognized that in the highest sense he represents the Lord as regards His Divine Love, and in the internal sense His celestial kingdom, see 3654, 3881, and so the celestial kind of love there. Here therefore the good of love present with the Church in the natural is meant because now it exists among those who represent things in the natural which are to be joined to the internal.

1007. 'At the hand of man' means from his entire will, and 'at the hand of brother man' from his entire understanding. This is clear from the meaning of 'man' (homo), for the essential element and life of a person is his will - indeed the character of the will determines that of the person; and from the meaning of 'brother man' (vir), for where the understanding resides in man it is called 'brother man', as shown already in 367. Whether the understanding residing there is true, spurious, or false, it is still called 'brother man'. In fact the understanding is called 'a man' (vir), 158, 265, and 'the brother' of the will, 367. The reason why a defiled will and a defiled understanding are here called 'a man' (homo) and 'brother man' (vir) is that the subject here is profanation, the mere mention and consequent representation of which is not tolerated in heaven but instantly rejected with disgust. This is why such mild expressions are employed here. The sense of the words of the verse can be taken two different ways so to speak, so as to prevent those in heaven knowing that this verse contains such matters.