5782. 'And Judah said' means a perception imparted to the good of the Church in the natural. This is clear from the meaning of 'saying' in the historical narratives of the Word as perception, dealt with often (it is an imparted perception because all perception comes from the internal, that is, it flows in from the Lord by way of the internal, 5779); and from the representation of 'Judah' as the good of the Church, dealt with in 5583, 5603, 5775. Regarding Judah's representation, it should be recognized that in the highest sense he represents the Lord as regards His Divine Love, and in the internal sense His celestial kingdom, see 3654, 3881, and so the celestial kind of love there. Here therefore the good of love present with the Church in the natural is meant because now it exists among those who represent things in the natural which are to be joined to the internal.

5833. 'And now, when I come to your servant my father' means the good of the Church corresponding to the spiritual good which is that of the internal Church. This is clear from the representation of Judah, who says this about himself, as the good of the Church, dealt with in 5583, 5603, 5782, and from the representation of Israel, who is his 'father' here, as spiritual good, dealt with in 5807, 5812, 5813, 5817, 5819, 5825. The good of the Church that 'Judah' represents is the good of the external Church, whereas the spiritual good that 'Israel' represents is the good of the internal Church, 4286. For every Church of the Lord's is both internal and external, and features of the external Church correspond to features of the internal Church, so that the good of the Church which is 'Judah' corresponds to spiritual good which is 'Israel'.