3509. 'And Rebekah said to Jacob her son - she said' means the Lord's perception from Divine Truth concerning natural truth. This is clear from the representation of 'Rebekah' as the Divine Truth of the Lord's Divine Rational, dealt with in 3012, 3013, 3077; from the meaning of 'saying' as perceiving, dealt with in 1791, 1815, 1819, 1822, 1898, 1919, 2080, 2506, 2515, 2552, 2619; and from the representation of 'Jacob' as the Lord's Natural as regards truth, dealt with in 3305. From this it is evident that 'Rebekah said to Jacob her son' means the Lord's perception from Divine Truth concerning natural truth. For on the one hand the Lord wished to acquire truth from the Divine Good of the Divine Rational, represented by 'Isaac', through the good of the Natural, represented by 'Esau', by means of which truth He would glorify, or make Divine, the Natural. But on the other hand the Lord wished to acquire truth from the Divine Truth of the Divine Rational, represented by 'Rebekah', through the truth of the Natural, represented by 'Jacob', by means of which truth He would glorify, or make Divine, the Rational. But these two wishes of His cannot be grasped unless light is thrown on the subject from what happens with man when being regenerated or made new by the Lord. And even then it cannot be grasped unless one knows the situation with the rational as regards good and as regards truth there. So let this matter be discussed briefly.

[2] The rational mind is distinguished into two separate mental powers, one called the will, the other the understanding. That which goes forth from the will when someone is being regenerated is called good, and that which goes forth from the understanding is called truth. Until a person has been regenerated the will does not act in unison with the understanding. Instead the will desires good whereas the understanding desires truth; and so different is each desire from the other that the effort of the will is perceived to be quite distinct and separate from that of the understanding. This is perceived however only by those who stop to reflect, knowing what the will is and the things that constitute this, and what the understanding is and the things that constitute that. But it is not perceived by those who do not know those things and therefore do not stop to reflect. And there is the added reason that the natural mind is regenerated by way of the rational mind, see 3493, and indeed according to order as follows: The good of the rational does not pass directly into the good of the natural and regenerate it but by way of truth which belongs to the understanding, thus giving the appearance that it enters in from the truth of the rational. These are the matters which this chapter deals with in the internal sense; for 'Isaac' is the rational mind as regards good present in the will, 'Rebekah' as regards truth present in the understanding. 'Esau' is the good of the natural springing from the good of the rational, 'Jacob' the truth of the natural springing from the good of the rational by way of the truth there.

[3] These considerations show the kind of arcana contained in the internal sense of the Word; yet there are very few which can be described in a way intelligible to the human mind. The number of those which are beyond man's comprehension and defy description is unlimited. For the more deeply the Word goes, that is, the more interiorly into heaven, the more unlimited and also the more indescribable do they become not only to man but also to angels of the lower heaven. And when it reaches the inmost heaven the angels there perceive that the arcana are infinite and, being Divine are quite beyond their comprehension. Such is the nature of the Word.

2552. 'Abraham said' means a perception, which constituted a reply. This is clear from the meaning in historical narratives of the Word of 'saying', dealt with many times already, as in 1791, 1815, 1819, 1822, 1898, 1919, 2061, 2080, 2238, 2260, 2271, 2287. As regards the Lord's thought from the doctrine of faith being meant by the expression 'Abimelech said to Abraham' but a perception which constituted a reply, by the expression 'Abraham said', the position is that perception is something higher, which in the Lord's case was from the Divine itself, whereas thought is something lower, which in the Lord's case was from the understanding itself. And because it was perception from which His thought sprang, so was the reply possessed by His thought derived from perception. This may be illustrated by means of something similar with man. The celestial man is unable to think except from perception, and the spiritual is unable to do so except from conscience, 2515. The perception of the celestial man, like the conscience [of the spiritual], originates in the Lord, though to the individual himself it is not apparent where it comes from; but his thought springs from the rational and seems to him to originate in himself. Thus again when he thinks about any matter from the rational the conclusion within his thought, or the reply, comes either from perception or from conscience. Consequently any reply which he receives from the Lord is conditioned by his own state of life, by his affection, and by the truth of doctrine implanted or imprinted in conformity with these.