5259. And Pharaoh spoke unto Joseph. That this signifies the thought of the celestial of the spiritual from the natural, is evident from what was said above (n. 5251), where similar words are used, save only that it is there written that “Pharaoh said unto Joseph,” while here it is said that he “spoke unto him;” for “saying” signifies perception, but “speaking” thought (see n. 2271, 2287, 2619). That by “Pharaoh spoke unto Joseph” is signified the thought of the celestial of the spiritual from the natural, and not the converse, is because what is exterior never thinks from itself, but from what is interior, or what is the same thing, what is lower does not think except from what is higher; although while the interior or higher is thinking in the exterior or lower, it appears as if the exterior or lower thought from itself, which, however, is a fallacy. It is like one who sees something in a mirror, and not knowing that a mirror is there, imagines that the object is where it appears to be, when yet it is not there.

[2] Now because the celestial of the spiritual is interior or higher, and the natural is exterior or lower, the thought of the celestial of the spiritual from the natural is signified in the internal sense by “Pharaoh spoke unto Joseph.” In a word, nothing that is beneath can do anything of itself; but that which it can do, it has from what is higher; and because this is so, it evidently follows that everything is from the Most High, that is, from the Divine. Consequently man’s thinking from the understanding and acting from the will, he has from the Most High or from the Divine. But his thinking falsely and acting evilly comes from the form he has impressed upon himself; and his thinking truly and acting well is from the form he has received from the Lord; for it is known that one and the same power and energy produces different motions according to the configurations in the mediates and the extremes; thus in man, life from the Divine produces diverse thoughts and actions, according to the forms.

5251. And Pharaoh said unto Joseph. That this signifies the perception of the celestial of the spiritual from the natural, is evident from the signification of “saying” in the historicals of the Word, as being to perceive (as often shown above); and from the representation of Pharaoh, as being the natural (see n. 5079, 5080, 5095, 5160); and from the representation of Joseph, as being the celestial of the spiritual (n. 4286, 4592, 4594, 4963, 5086, 5087, 5106, 5249). That the perception of the celestial of the spiritual from the natural is signified, is because the Lord is represented both by Joseph and by Pharaoh-by Joseph as to the celestial of the spiritual, and by Pharaoh as to the natural. Hence by “Pharaoh said unto Joseph” is signified the Lord’s perception from the celestial of the spiritual in the natural. But what and of what quality this perception is, cannot be told so as to be apprehended, unless there has first been formed some idea of spiritual perception, and of the celestial of the spiritual, and also of the manner in which the natural is distinct from the spiritual. On these subjects some things have indeed been said already, which should now be recalled.