449. And thus I saw the horses in the vision and those who sat on them. (9:17) This symbolizes the discovery then that the reasonings of the interiors of their minds concerning faith alone were fanciful and illusory, and that they themselves were insane because of them.

To see means, symbolically, to perceive their character. The horses symbolize the reasonings of the interiors of their minds concerning faith alone - here their fanciful and illusory reasonings, because we are told that John saw them in vision. People sitting on horses symbolize people who are intelligent owing to their understanding of the Word - here people who are insane because of their fanciful and illusory reasonings contrary to the Word.

[2] Because the interiors of these people's minds appeared in such guises, guises which symbolize fanciful and illusory reasonings concerning faith alone, we should disclose some of them that I took from their own mouths. As for example:

"After the so grievous fall of man, was faith alone not made the one means of salvation? How can we appear before God apart from that means? Is it not the only means? Are we not born in sin? Is our nature not utterly corrupted by Adam's transgression? Is there any other means of healing than faith alone? What shall our works contribute to this? Who can do any good work of himself? Who can purify himself, absolve himself, or justify and save himself? Do not merit-seeking and self-righteousness lie concealed in every little work that a person does of himself? And if perchance we were to do something that is good, could we do it all and fulfill the law? Furthermore, if one sins again one precept, one sins against them all, because they are bound up together.

"Why did the Lord come into the world and so grievously suffer the cross except to take away from us the condemnation and curse of the law, to propitiate God the Father, to become Himself alone merit and righteousness, which are imputed to a person through faith? Otherwise what good or for what good purpose was His advent?

"So, then, since Christ suffered for us and fulfilled the law for us, and took away its power to condemn, can evil in that case any longer condemn us? Or goodness save us? Consequently we who have faith are at complete liberty to think, will, speak and do whatever we please, provided we do not suffer any loss of reputation, esteem, or material gain, or incur the penalties of civil law, which would bring infamy and disgrace."

Some of these people who wandered about further north said that good works done for the sake of salvation are hurtful, destructive, and cursed. Among them were also some church elders.

[3] This much I heard; but they kept prattling on and muttering about more, which I did not hear.

They spoke, moreover, shamelessly, without constraint, and behaved wantonly in both word and deed, free of any fear over any wickedness except to keep up pretenses in order to appear respectable.

Such are the interior workings of the minds, and so the outer actions of the bodies, of people who make the whole of religion faith alone.

All of this that they told me collapses, however, if one turns to the Lord directly as Savior, believing in Him and doing good, both of these for the sake of salvation, and this by the person as if of himself, yet believing that it is the Lord's doing. Unless a person does this as if of himself, no faith is possible, and no charity, and thus no religion and so no salvation.

494. And if anyone wants to harm them, fire will proceed from their mouth and devour their enemies. (11:5) This symbolically means that anyone who wishes to destroy these two essential elements perishes from a hellish love.

To want to harm the two witnesses means, symbolically, to wish to destroy the two essential elements of the New Church, namely, an acknowledgment of the Lord as being God of heaven and earth even as to His humanity, and a life in accordance with the Ten Commandments. To be shown that these are the two witnesses, see no. 490 above.

Fire's proceeding from their mouth means, symbolically, that hellish love will do so; and its devouring their enemies means, symbolically, that those who harm them will perish because of it. Here, however, it is not to be supposed that fire will issue from the mouth of the witnesses, but that it will do so from people who wish to destroy these two essential elements of the New Church, meant by the two witnesses (no. 490). The fire is the fire of hell; for people who do not live according to the Ten Commandments, and who do not turn to God, their Savior and Redeemer, cannot help but be caught up in a hellish love and perish.

[2] The case is the same as elsewhere in the Word where we are told that Jehovah sends fire that consumes the wicked, or that Jehovah does other things like that out of the fire of His wrath, anger, or fury, which mean not that they come from Jehovah, but that they do so from the hellish love of the wicked.

We read of instances like that in the Word because that is how they appear, and the Word in its literal sense was composed in terms of appearances and things that correspond.

Since we are told that fire proceeded from their mouth, and this means that it originated from people caught up in a hellish love, we will cite some passages where fire is said to issue from Jehovah:

The breath of Jehovah, like a stream of brimstone, will consume it. (Isaiah 30:33)

Smoke went up from His nostrils, and fire from His mouth...; coals were kindled by it. (Psalms 18:8)

(I will) pour out on them... the wrath of My anger; for all the earth shall be devoured in the fire of My zeal. (Zephaniah 3:8)

...behold, Jehovah will come with fire... for retribution in the wrath of His anger, and His rebuke in flames of fire. (Isaiah 66:15)

You will be visited by Jehovah... with the flame of devouring fire. (Isaiah 29:6, cf. 30:30)

And so on in many places elsewhere.