6220. 'That [someone] said to Joseph' means a pre-eminent discernment. This is clear from the meaning of 'saying' as perception, dealt with in 1791, 1815, 1819, 1822, 1898, 1919, 2080, 2619, 2682, 3509, 5687. The reason a pre-eminent discernment is meant is that the subject in what follows is the Church's understanding and will, thus its truth and good, which come from an inflowing through the celestial internal, which is 'Joseph'.

5687. 'And said' means perception. This is clear from the meaning of 'saying' in the historical narratives of the Word as perception, often dealt with already. The reason 'saying' means perceiving is that in heaven, quite differently from what happens in the world, the actual thoughts that give rise to an utterance are perceived. And this is the reason why perceiving in the spiritual sense is 'speaking' or 'saying' in the literal sense, or what amounts to the same, the natural sense.