5434. 'And they said to him, No, sir, we are upright men' means that truths are indeed present within them. This is clear from the meaning of 'saying to him, No, sir' as a denial that they existed for the sake of gain, meant by Joseph's words 'you are spies', 5432, and a denial that nothing would please them more than to know it for themselves that they are not truths, meant by Joseph's words 'you have come to see the nakedness of the land', 5433; and from the meaning of 'we are upright men' as that truths are indeed present within them, 'uprightness' meaning truth in the internal sense here, as also many times elsewhere in the Word. This meaning - that truths are indeed present within them - follows from the whole train of thought; for in the case of people who have acquired to themselves the truths known to the Church, doing so for the sake of their own material gain, those truths are not indeed truths to them, as shown above in 5433. But even so, truths can indeed be present within them, such truths known to the Church as a general whole being meant by 'the sons of Jacob'. The reason 'upright men' means truths quite apart from persons is that in the internal sense everything is withdrawn from ideas about persons; an idea in the literal sense describing a person becomes an idea describing some spiritual reality, see 5225, 5287. The reason for this is that otherwise the reader's thought and consequent speech are inevitably distracted and diverted from that spiritual reality and contemplation of it to details that have to do with the person. What is more, there is no other way in which the thought and consequent speech can become more universal, no other way in which just a number of ideas, let alone ideas that are countless and indescribable, can be taken in simultaneously, as is the case among angels. But although such spiritual images are withdrawn from ideas of persons they still have to do with persons; that is to say, they have to do with people in whom those spiritual realities are present. This is why 'upright men' means truths.

5225. 'And there was no one to interpret them for Pharaoh' means that no knowledge existed of what was going to happen. This is clear from the meaning of 'interpreting' as knowing what was going to happen, dealt with in 5141, and therefore 'no one to interpret' means no knowledge of it since 'no one' in the internal sense means the absence and so non-existence of some reality. For the idea of a person is converted in the internal sense into that of some reality. For example, the idea of a man, husband, woman, wife, son, daughter, boy, or virgin is converted into the idea of some truth or form of good. Or, as above in 5223, the idea of a magus and a wise man is converted into that of factual knowledge, interior and exterior. The reason for this is that in the spiritual world, that is, in heaven, angels' attention is fixed not on persons but on spiritual realities. For persons narrow an idea down and focus it on some finite thing, whereas spiritual realities do not involve any such narrowing down or focusing but spread to what is Infinite, and so to the Lord. This explains too why in heaven no one ever perceives a person mentioned in the Word; instead they perceive the reality represented by that person. Nor for the same reason does anyone in heaven perceive a people or nation, only its essential nature. Indeed in heaven they have no knowledge at all of any historical detail in the Word about any person, nation, or people; consequently they have no knowledge of who Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, or the people of Israel are, nor of who the Jewish people are. Instead they perceive what is represented by Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, the people of Israel, the Jewish people, and so on with everything else. This explains why angelic language has no limitations and is also a universal one compared with other languages.