4190. 'And Jacob took a stone and erected it as a pillar' means a like truth and worship based on this. This is clear from the meaning of 'a stone' as truth, dealt with in 643, 1298, 3720, and from the meaning of 'a pillar' as worship based on it, that is, on truth, dealt with in 3727, from which paragraphs it is evident that these words mean a like truth and worship based on this. The expression 'a like truth' is used, that is, truth as it exists among gentiles, because although gentiles do not know anything about the Word or as a consequence about the Lord, they still have the same external truths as Christians, such as these: One should worship God with due reverence, keep religious festivals, and honour one's parents; one should not steal, commit adultery, or kill; also, one should not covet what belongs to another. Thus gentiles have the same kind of truths as are included in the Ten Commandments and are also the standards of behaviour set within the Church. The wise among them act in conformity not only with the external but also with the internal form which those same commandments take, for they think that the kinds of things which are forbidden are not only contrary to their religion but also contrary to the common good and so to the internal obligation which they owe to other people, and that as a consequence such actions are contrary to charity. And they think in this way even though they have little knowledge of what faith is. In their obscurity they possess a kind of conscience against which they are unwilling to act, indeed against which some are incapable of acting. From this it becomes clear that the Lord governs their interiors which are in obscurity, and in so doing imparts to them an ability to receive interior truths, which they also do receive in the next life - see what has been shown concerning gentiles in 2589-2604.

[2] I have been allowed to talk on several occasions to Christians in the next life about the state and fortune of gentiles outside the Church - that they accept the truths and goods of faith more easily than do Christians who have not lived according to the Lord's commandments, and that Christians think of gentiles in a heartless fashion. That is to say, they think that all outside the Church stand condemned, a way of thinking based on the established rule that outside the Lord there is no salvation. I have told the Christians to whom I have been speaking that this rule is true, but that gentiles who have led charitable lives with one another and who, moved by some kind of conscience, have done what is just and fair, receive faith and acknowledge the Lord more easily in the next life than those who are inside the Church and have not led charitable lives. I have gone on to say that Christians are subject to falsity when they believe that heaven is theirs alone because they have the Book of the Word, written down on paper but not in their hearts, and also when they know the Lord but do not believe that He is Divine as to His Human, indeed when they do not acknowledge Him, as to His second Essence which they term the human nature, as any more than an ordinary human being. Therefore, left to themselves and their own ideas they do not even adore Him. So it is they themselves who are outside the Lord, and for whom there is no salvation.

2129. There are also other types of tumults, or rather of conflicts, which also convey the idea of a Last Judgement and by which communities harmfully joined together as regards their interiors are dissolved. Concerning them let the following be mentioned: Such spirits are driven into a condition in which they do not think in their normal way as a community, that is, one with another, but each one independently. As a result of their thinking, each at variance with the others, and of each muttering something different from the rest, an uproar is produced which sounds like that of many waters; and conflict with one another takes place such as defies description which arises out of the mishmash of opinions concerning firmly established truths, which are at the time the substance of their thoughts and speech. That mishmash is such as may be called spiritual chaos.

[2] The sound of these conflicting and confused uproarings was threefold. The first flowed in around the head, and I was told it was that of thoughts. The second flowed in towards the left temple. I was told that this was a conflict of reasonings about certain truths in which they were unwilling to pin their faith. The third flowed in from above over on the right. It was rasping though less confused, a rasping sound directed first this way, then that. I was told that this was the product of truths clashing which were being turned this way and that by means of reasonings. While these conflicts were going on there were other spirits who spoke to me, telling me in speech that rose clearly above all that noise the meaning of every single thing.

[3] The matters which they reasoned about were chiefly these - whether the statement that the twelve apostles were going to sit on twelve thrones and judge the twelve tribes of Israel was to be understood literally, and also whether other people who have endured persecution and affliction were to be allowed into heaven. Each one reasoned in accordance with what had taken his fancy during his lifetime. Some of them however who had been brought back into associations with one another and into order were then informed that those descriptions were to be understood in a completely different way, that is to say, that 'apostles' is not used to mean apostles, nor 'thrones' to mean thrones, nor 'tribes' tribes, nor indeed is 'twelve' used to mean twelve. Instead apostles, thrones, tribes, and also twelve, meant the first and foremost matters of faith, 2089. They also said that such matters of faith are the starting-point and the criteria from which everyone is judged. And over and above all this they were shown that the apostles have no power to judge anyone at all, and that all judgement is the Lord's alone.

[4] As regards the second point which they reasoned about, this should not be taken to mean that only those who have endured persecution and affliction will enter heaven, but that the rich no less than the poor will do so, those who have held important positions no less than those whose position has been humble. Furthermore the Lord takes pity on all, especially on people who have endured spiritual afflictions and temptations, which are persecutions by the evil, thus on those who acknowledge that of themselves they are wretched and who believe that it is through the Lord's mercy alone they are saved.