10580. 'And Jehovah said, Behold, there is a place by Me, and you shall stand on the rock' means a state of faith in God. This is clear from the meaning of 'a place' as a state, dealt with in 2625, 2837, 3356, 3387, 4321, 4882, 5605, 7381, 9440, 9967, 10146; and from the meaning of 'the rock' as faith, dealt with in 8581, 10438, the reason why a state of faith in God is meant being that the words 'a place by Me' are used. No one can know except from the internal sense that this is the meaning of these words, thus unless he knows what it is that 'a place' means and what it is that 'the rock' means in that sense. But for the internal sense what would the declaration that there was a place by Jehovah on the rock mean? It would mean that Jehovah dwelt there and was providing Moses a place by Him; but in fact Jehovah dwells in heaven among angels, and in the Church among people. The meaning of 'the rock' as faith has its origin in the things that appear in the next life; those ruled by faith dwell there on rocks, but those governed by love dwell on mountains. The rocks there are stony in appearance; but not so the mountains, because they are raised up masses of earth. This is where the meaning of 'the rock' as faith comes from.

9440. A person unacquainted with the arcana of heaven may think that no one can see planets so far away and through what he has experienced with his senses report about them. But let it be recognized that intervals of space and distances between places, and consequent movements from one to another, which are visible in the natural world, are first occasioned by and have their origin in the changes of state undergone by the interiors, and that among angels and spirits appearances are in exact accord with those changes. In this way spirits and angels can be transported from one place to another, and from one planet to another, even to planets on the edge of the universe. The same thing can be done to a person's spirit while his body remains where it is. It has happened to me also, for I have been allowed in the Lord's Divine mercy to mix with spirits as a spirit, while at the same time mixing with people on earth as a person on earth. Regarding intervals of space and distances between places, and movements from one to another in heaven, that they are appearances which are products of changes of state undergone by the interiors, see 5605. The person who thinks on a sensory level does not see how anyone's spirit can be transported in that way, for he dwells within space and time and measures his movements from one place to another according to them.