5225. 'And there was no one to interpret them for Pharaoh' means that no knowledge existed of what was going to happen. This is clear from the meaning of 'interpreting' as knowing what was going to happen, dealt with in 5141, and therefore 'no one to interpret' means no knowledge of it since 'no one' in the internal sense means the absence and so non-existence of some reality. For the idea of a person is converted in the internal sense into that of some reality. For example, the idea of a man, husband, woman, wife, son, daughter, boy, or virgin is converted into the idea of some truth or form of good. Or, as above in 5223, the idea of a magus and a wise man is converted into that of factual knowledge, interior and exterior. The reason for this is that in the spiritual world, that is, in heaven, angels' attention is fixed not on persons but on spiritual realities. For persons narrow an idea down and focus it on some finite thing, whereas spiritual realities do not involve any such narrowing down or focusing but spread to what is Infinite, and so to the Lord. This explains too why in heaven no one ever perceives a person mentioned in the Word; instead they perceive the reality represented by that person. Nor for the same reason does anyone in heaven perceive a people or nation, only its essential nature. Indeed in heaven they have no knowledge at all of any historical detail in the Word about any person, nation, or people; consequently they have no knowledge of who Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, or the people of Israel are, nor of who the Jewish people are. Instead they perceive what is represented by Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, the people of Israel, the Jewish people, and so on with everything else. This explains why angelic language has no limitations and is also a universal one compared with other languages.

4749. 'Taking them down to Egypt' means teaching based on factual knowledge. This is clear from the meaning of 'Egypt' as facts, dealt with in 1164, 1165, 1462; and because 'spices, resin, and stacte' means interior truths based on the facts possessed by those in whom simple good is present, like that present in gentiles, therefore 'taking them down to that place' means receipt of teaching. The position is this: The facts meant by 'Egypt' are facts which contribute to spiritual life and correspond to spiritual truths, for in former times the Ancient Church had existed there also. But once the Church there had been turned into magic, facts which pervert spiritual things were meant after that by 'Egypt'. This explains why facts are meant in the Word, both in the good sense and in the contrary sense, by 'Egypt', see 1164, 1165, 1462; in this case in the good sense.

[2] The factual knowledge on which the interior truths meant by the spices, resin, and stacte which the Ishmaelites were carrying on their camels are based are not the kind of facts which the Church possesses but the kind found among gentiles. The truths obtained from these facts found among gentiles cannot receive correction and be made sound except by means of the facts which the genuine Church possesses, and so by instruction in those facts. These are the matters meant at this point.