5541. 'And Reuben said to his father' means matters of faith in the understanding were discerned by the good of truth. This is clear from the meaning of 'saying' in the historical narratives of the Word as discerning, often dealt with already; from the representation of 'Reuben' as faith in doctrine and in the understanding, dealt with in 3861, 3866, 5472, and therefore matters belonging to that faith; and from the representation of Jacob, 'his father' whom Reuben addresses here, as the good of truth, dealt with in 3659, 3669, 3677, 3775, 4234, 4273, 4538, 5533. From all this it is evident that 'Reuben said to his father' means matters of faith present in the understanding were discerned by the good of truth. The reason Reuben is the speaker here is that the subject is the Church in which faith present in doctrine and in the understanding seemingly takes the lead and teaches. Here it teaches what must be done if the destruction of what constitutes the Church is to be averted.

3677. 'The brother of Rebekah, Jacob and Esau's mother' means the relationship through the mother of the good of truth, represented by 'Jacob', with the truth of good, represented by 'Esau'. This is clear from the representation of 'Rebekah' as the Lord's Divine Rational as regards Divine Truth, often dealt with already, from the representation of 'Jacob' as the good of truth, or good which springs from truth in the natural, and from the representation of 'Esau' as the truth of good, or good from which truth springs in the natural, dealt with above in 3669. And seeing that all goods and truths which exist in the natural or external man are conceived and born from the rational or internal man, that is to say, from the good of the rational as the father, and from the truth of the rational as the mother, 3314, 3573, 3616, those words therefore mean a relationship through the mother of the good of truth, represented by 'Jacob', with the truth of good, represented by 'Esau'. This is exactly how they are related to one another.

[2] But to explain these things intelligibly is extremely difficult, the reason being that the most general features of this matter are not known at the present day, such as what spiritual good is and what the truth that goes with it is, and that there are countless genera of good and accompanying truth, and still more countless species, and also that there are degrees of them which are interconnected like those of blood relationships and relationships by marriage. While these very general features remain unknown a description of degrees and relationships would not be at all clear to anyone, especially at the present day when the learned have no wish to know those things. For these do not like to go beneath the surface of these matters and discuss the nature of them, only whether they exist or not. And as long as that is their state they have no wish at all to know anything about those countless kinds of good and truth.