8783. 'And also will believe in you forever' means in order that a faith composed of truth may exist, a faith that is going to be permanent. This is clear from the representation of 'Moses' as the truth from God, dealt with in 6771, 6827, 7014; from the meaning of 'believing' as faith; and from the meaning of 'forever' as that which is going to be permanent. The situation here is that the truth from God cannot be received by anyone unless it is adjusted to what he is capable of understanding, and so unless it is seen in a natural shape and form. For initially human minds can understand only earthly and worldly things, and not at all spiritual and celestial ones. If therefore spiritual and celestial things were made plainly visible they would be cast aside, as if they were worthless. This accords with the Lord's words in John,

If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how [will you believe] if I tell you heavenly things? John 3:12.

Still less would those who lived before the Lord's Coming have believed them. They were eventually so blind that they knew nothing, because they did not wish to know anything, about the life after death, about the internal man, about charity and faith, or about any heavenly reality. They rejected these because they had no liking for them, for those who have earthly and worldly things as their end in view, that is, love them more than anything else, have no liking for spiritual things; they virtually detest the very mention of them. Those things would suffer almost the same rejection at the present day. Learned people in the world do indeed believe that they would be better able to receive the Word if heavenly things were made plainly visible in it and if it were not written in so simple a style. But they are very much mistaken. They would reject it more than simple people, and would see no light in it, only complete and utter darkness. This darkness is brought about by human learning among those who trust in their own intelligence and therefore set themselves up above others. The Lord teaches that such things have been hidden from the wise and revealed to young children, that is, to the simple, in Matthew 11:25-26, and Luke 10:21. This is also perfectly clear from the consideration that those who are atheists and nature-worshippers, as they are called, are people who are learned. The world knows this, and they themselves know it.

5017. 'And it happened as he was hearing [me]' means when it was discerned. This is clear from the meaning of 'hearing' as obeying and also discerning. As regards obeying being meant, see 2542, 3869; but the fact that discerning is meant as well is evident from the actual function performed by the ear and consequently from the nature of hearing. The function of the ear is to receive what is spoken by another and to convey this to the general seat of sensation, so that this may discern from what has been conveyed to it the other person's thought. This is the reason why 'hearing' means discerning. The nature of hearing therefore is to carry one person's utterances expressing his thought to another's thought, and from there into his will, and from there into actions. This is the reason why 'hearing' means obeying. Such are the two functions proper to hearing, and in spoken languages they are distinguished from each other by the expressions 'to hear someone', meaning to discern what he says, and 'to listen to someone or hearken to him, meaning to obey him. The reason hearing has these two functions is that the human being is unable to communicate the contents of his thought and also of his will in any other way; nor can he do other than use reasons to persuade and lead others to do and obey what he wills. From this one may see the circle through which desires and ideas are communicated - from will into thought and thus into speech, then from speech by way of his ear into another's thought and will. From this one may also see why spirits and angels who correspond to the ear or sense of hearing in the Grand Man are not only 'discernments' but also 'obediences'. As regards their being 'obediences', see 4652-4660; and being these they are also 'discernments', for the one entails the other.