3509. 'And Rebekah said to Jacob her son - she said' means the Lord's perception from Divine Truth concerning natural truth. This is clear from the representation of 'Rebekah' as the Divine Truth of the Lord's Divine Rational, dealt with in 3012, 3013, 3077; from the meaning of 'saying' as perceiving, dealt with in 1791, 1815, 1819, 1822, 1898, 1919, 2080, 2506, 2515, 2552, 2619; and from the representation of 'Jacob' as the Lord's Natural as regards truth, dealt with in 3305. From this it is evident that 'Rebekah said to Jacob her son' means the Lord's perception from Divine Truth concerning natural truth. For on the one hand the Lord wished to acquire truth from the Divine Good of the Divine Rational, represented by 'Isaac', through the good of the Natural, represented by 'Esau', by means of which truth He would glorify, or make Divine, the Natural. But on the other hand the Lord wished to acquire truth from the Divine Truth of the Divine Rational, represented by 'Rebekah', through the truth of the Natural, represented by 'Jacob', by means of which truth He would glorify, or make Divine, the Rational. But these two wishes of His cannot be grasped unless light is thrown on the subject from what happens with man when being regenerated or made new by the Lord. And even then it cannot be grasped unless one knows the situation with the rational as regards good and as regards truth there. So let this matter be discussed briefly.

[2] The rational mind is distinguished into two separate mental powers, one called the will, the other the understanding. That which goes forth from the will when someone is being regenerated is called good, and that which goes forth from the understanding is called truth. Until a person has been regenerated the will does not act in unison with the understanding. Instead the will desires good whereas the understanding desires truth; and so different is each desire from the other that the effort of the will is perceived to be quite distinct and separate from that of the understanding. This is perceived however only by those who stop to reflect, knowing what the will is and the things that constitute this, and what the understanding is and the things that constitute that. But it is not perceived by those who do not know those things and therefore do not stop to reflect. And there is the added reason that the natural mind is regenerated by way of the rational mind, see 3493, and indeed according to order as follows: The good of the rational does not pass directly into the good of the natural and regenerate it but by way of truth which belongs to the understanding, thus giving the appearance that it enters in from the truth of the rational. These are the matters which this chapter deals with in the internal sense; for 'Isaac' is the rational mind as regards good present in the will, 'Rebekah' as regards truth present in the understanding. 'Esau' is the good of the natural springing from the good of the rational, 'Jacob' the truth of the natural springing from the good of the rational by way of the truth there.

[3] These considerations show the kind of arcana contained in the internal sense of the Word; yet there are very few which can be described in a way intelligible to the human mind. The number of those which are beyond man's comprehension and defy description is unlimited. For the more deeply the Word goes, that is, the more interiorly into heaven, the more unlimited and also the more indescribable do they become not only to man but also to angels of the lower heaven. And when it reaches the inmost heaven the angels there perceive that the arcana are infinite and, being Divine are quite beyond their comprehension. Such is the nature of the Word.

2515. 'And said to him' means thought springing from this, that is to say, from the perception. This is clear from the meaning of 'saying' as perceiving, and also as thinking, dealt with above in 2506. Since it is said here that the thought was derived from the perception, let a brief statement be made about thought. There are thoughts that derive from perception, thoughts that derive from conscience, and thoughts that derive from no conscience. Thoughts deriving from perception exist with celestial people only, that is, with those who are moved by love to the Lord. Such thought is the most internal to exist with man; and it exists with celestial angels in heaven. Perception from the Lord is the means and the source of their thought, and thinking contrary to perception is an impossibility. Thoughts deriving from conscience are of a lower order and exist with spiritual people, that is, with those who in life and in doctrine are moved by good that stems from charity and faith. For them as well, thinking contrary to conscience is an impossibility, for that would be thinking contrary to the good and truth which the Lord dictates to them by means of conscience.

[2] Thoughts deriving from no conscience however exist with people who do not allow themselves to be governed inwardly by good and truth but by evil and falsity, that is, not by the Lord but by themselves. They imagine that they think inwardly just as much as those who do so from conscience and perception, the reason being that they do not know what conscience is, still less what perception is, though the difference between their thought and that of people thinking from conscience or perception is as great as that between hell and heaven. People whose thought is devoid of conscience think from every evil desire and false notion, and so from hell. When they think in any other manner they do so from an outward respectability for the sake of reputation. But people who think from conscience do so from affections for good and truth, and so from heaven. As for the Lord's thought however, this surpasses all human understanding, for it sprang directly from the Divine.