6075. 'Both we and our fathers' means that this was so since the time of the ancients. This is clear from the meaning of 'fathers' as those who belonged to the ancient Churches, dealt with in 6050. In the Word there are many places referring to the Jews and Israelites in which their fathers are spoken of in a praiseworthy manner. People who confine themselves to the sense of the letter do not take 'fathers in those places to mean anybody other than Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and also the sons of Jacob. But in the internal sense 'fathers', in a good sense, is used to mean not them but those who belonged to the Most Ancient Church which existed before the Flood and those who belonged to the Ancient Church which existed after the Flood. Members of both were called 'fathers' because the Church came down from them and things of the Church were derived from them.

[2] 'Fathers' is used in Moses to mean those belonging to the Ancient Churches,

Your fathers Jehovah delighted to love, and He chose their seed after them. Deuteronomy 10:15.

And in the same author,

Remember the days of old, understand the Years of generation after generation. When the Most High gave to the nations an inheritance, when He separated the sons of man, He fixed the boundaries of the peoples, according to the number of the sons of Israel. But when Jeshurun became fat he forsook God. They sacrifice to demons, to gods [whom they do not know, to new ones] that have come from near by and that your fathers did not fear. ¹ Deuteronomy 32:7-8, 15, 17.

These words appear in the prophetical Song of Moses, in which verses 7-15 refer to the Ancient Church and Verses 15-44 to the descendants of Jacob. The state of the Most Ancient Church which existed before the Flood is meant by 'the days of old', and the state of the Ancient Church which existed after the Flood by 'the years of generation after generation'. Their state of good is meant by 'an inheritance which the Most High gave to the nations', and their state of truth by 'the Most High separated the sons of man, He fixed the boundaries of the peoples, according to the number of the sons of Israel', which 'number', being 'twelve', means all the truths of faith in their entirety, see 577, 2089, 2129 (end), 2130 (end), 3272, 3858, 3913. From this it is evident that 'fathers' means those who belonged to the ancient Churches. A similar meaning exists in the following places:

In Isaiah,

Our holy house, and our splendour, where our fathers praised You, has been made into a blaze of fire. Isaiah 64:11.

In Jeremiah,

Did not your father eat and drink, yet execute judgement and righteousness? Then all went well for him. Jeremiah 22:15.

In the same prophet,

They have sinned against Jehovah, the habitation of righteousness and the hope of their fathers. Jeremiah 50:7.

In David,

O God, we have heard with our ears, our fathers have told us the work You worked in their days, in the days of old. Psalms 44:1.

'Fathers' is used in the same way in Daniel 11:14, 37-38. The fact that those who belonged to the ancient Churches are meant in these places by 'fathers' is not apparent in the sense of the letter; it is seen only from the internal sense in which the Church, its forms of good, and its truths are the subject. Furthermore the Church itself - being the heavenly marriage, that is, the marriage of goodness and truth - is called 'father' in the Word in respect to goodness and 'mother' in respect to truth, 3707, 5581.

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3305. 'And he called his name Jacob' means the doctrine of natural truth. This is clear from the meaning of 'calling the name' or calling by name as the essential nature, dealt with just above in 3302. The essential nature represented by 'Jacob' is the doctrine of natural truth, as becomes clear from the representation of Esau as good constituting the life of natural truth, 3300, and from very many places in the Word where he is mentioned. There are two elements which constitute the natural, as there are two which constitute the rational, and indeed which constitute the whole person - the first being that of life, the second that of doctrine. The element of life belongs to the will, that of doctrine to the understanding. The former is called good, but the latter truth. It is that good which is represented by Esau, but this truth by Jacob; or what amounts to the same, it is good constituting the life of natural truth that is represented by Esau, and the doctrine of natural truth that is represented by Jacob. Whether you speak of the good constituting the life of natural truth and of the doctrine of natural truth, or of those in whom such doctrine and life are present, it amounts to the same, for the good constituting the life and the doctrine of truth cannot exist apart from their subject. Without their subject they are mere abstractions, yet they nevertheless have regard to the person in whom they exist. Consequently Jacob here means people who possess the doctrine of natural truth.

[2] Those who confine themselves to the sense of the letter suppose that in the Word Jacob is used to mean every one of those people descended from Jacob, and for that reason they apply to those people everything that has been stated about Jacob either as history or as prophecy. But the Word is Divine in that first and foremost every single thing within it has regard not just to one particular nation or people but to the whole human race, namely to everyone present, past, and future. More than that, it has reference to the Lord's kingdom in heaven; and in the highest sense to the Lord Himself. This is what makes it a Divine Word. If it were concerned with merely one particular nation it would be human only and would have nothing more of the Divine within it than the existence among that nation of holy worship. The fact that such worship did not exist among the people called 'Jacob' may be known to anyone. For this reason also it is evident that 'Jacob' is not used in the Word to mean Jacob, nor 'Israel' to mean Israel - for almost everywhere in prophetical parts, when Jacob is referred to, Israel is mentioned too. And no one can know what is meant specifically by the first or what by the second except from that sense which lies more deeply and conceals the arcana of heaven within itself.

[3] In the internal sense therefore 'Jacob' means the doctrine of natural truth, or what amounts to the same, people who possess that doctrine, no matter what nation they belong to; and in the highest sense 'Jacob' is used to mean the Lord, as becomes clear from the following places: In Luke,

The angel said to Mary, You will conceive in your womb and bear a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus. He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give to Him the throne of His father David, so that He will reign over the house of Jacob for ever, and of His kingdom there will be no end. Luke 1:31-33.

Everyone recognizes that here 'the house of Jacob' was not used to mean the Jewish nation or people, for the Lord's kingdom included not merely that people but all throughout the world who have faith in Him, and from faith have charity. From this it is clear that when the angel used the name Jacob he did not mean the people of Jacob. Nor consequently are those people meant anywhere else. Nor are the references to the seed of Jacob, the sons of Jacob, the land of Jacob, the inheritance of Jacob, the king of Jacob, and the God of Jacob, which occur so many times in the Old Testament Word, meant literally.

[4] It is similar with the name Israel, as in Matthew,

The angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream, saying, Rise, take the Boy and His mother, and flee into Egypt, and be there until I tell you. He rose and took the Boy and His mother by night, and departed into Egypt, so that what had been said by the prophet might be fulfilled, when he said, Out of Egypt have I called My Son. Matthew 2:13-15.

In the prophet this promise is stated as follows,

When Israel was a boy I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son. Hosea 11:1.

Here it is quite evident that 'Israel' is the Lord. From the sense of the letter however nothing more may be known beyond the fact that 'the boy Israel' means the immediate descendants of Jacob who came into Egypt and at a later time were summoned from there. It is similar in other places where the names Jacob and Israel occur, although it is not apparent from the sense of the letter, as in Isaiah,

Hear, O Jacob my servant, and Israel whom I have chosen, Thus said Jehovah who made you and formed you from the womb, who helps you, Fear not, O my servant Jacob, and Jeshurun whom I have chosen, for I will pour out waters upon thirsty land, and rivers upon the dry. I will pour out My spirit upon your seed, and My blessing upon your sons. This one will say, I am Jehovah's, and another will call himself by the name of Jacob, and he will write with his hand, Jehovah's, and surname himself by the name of Israel. Isaiah 44:1-3, 5.

Here 'Jacob' and 'Israel' plainly stand for the Lord, and 'the seed' and 'the sons of Jacob' for those having faith in Him.

[5] In the prophecy concerning Israel's sons, in Moses,

Joseph will sit in the strength of his bow, and the arms of his hands will be made strong by the hands of the mighty Jacob; from there is the Shepherd, the Stone of Israel. Genesis 49:24.

Here also 'the mighty Jacob' and 'the Stone of Israel' plainly stand for the Lord. In Isaiah,

My glory will I not give to another. Hearken to Me, O Jacob, and O Israel whom I called: I am the same; I am the first; I am also the last. Isaiah 48:11-12.

Here again 'Jacob' and 'Israel' are the Lord. In Ezekiel,

I will take the stick of Joseph which is in the hand of Ephraim and of the tribes of Israel his companions, and I will add them to it, to the stick of Judah, and make them into one stick, that they may be one in My hand. I will take the children of Israel from among the nations where they have gone, and will gather them from all around and bring them on to their own land. And I will make them into one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king will be king to them all, and they will no longer be two nations, nor will they ever be divided into two kingdoms again. My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd. At that time they will dwell in the land which I gave to Jacob my servant, in which your fathers dwelt. They will dwell in it, they, and their sons, and their sons' sons even for ever. David My servant will be their prince for ever. I will make with them a covenant of peace; it will be an eternal covenant with them. I will bless ¹ them, and multiply them, and I will set My sanctuary in their midst for evermore. Thus will My dwelling-place be with them, and I will be their God. and they will be My people, so that the nations may know that I Jehovah sanctify Israel, to be My sanctuary in their midst for evermore. Ezekiel 37:19, 21-22, 24-28.

Here again it is quite clear that 'Joseph', 'Ephraim', 'Judah', 'Israel', 'Jacob', and 'David' are not used to mean those persons, but in the highest sense Divine spiritual things within the Lord and which exist in the Lord's kingdom and in His Church. Anyone may know that David will not be, as is said, their king and prince for ever, but that 'David' is used to mean the Lord, 1888. Anyone may also know that Israel will not be gathered together from where they have been scattered, or that they will be sanctified, or, as is said, that the sanctuary will be set in their midst, but that, as is well known, 'Israel' in the representative sense means all those who have faith.

[6] In Micah,

I will surely gather Jacob, all of you, I will surely assemble the remnant of Israel; I will put them together, like the sheep of Bozrah. Micah 2:12.

Here the meaning is similar. In Isaiah,

Those who are to come Jacob will cause to take root. Israel will blossom and flower, and the face of the earth will be filled with produce. Isaiah 27:6.

Here also the meaning is similar. In the same prophet,

Thus said Jehovah, who redeemed Abraham, to the house of Jacob, Jacob will no more be ashamed, and no more will his face grow pale. For when he sees his male children, the work of My hands, in his midst they will sanctify My name, and they will sanctify the Holy One of Jacob, and will fear the God of Israel. And those who err in spirit will know understanding. Isaiah 29:22-24.

In the same prophet,

Jehovah said to His anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have grasped, to subdue nations before him, and I will ungird the loins of kings, to open doors before him, and gates may not be closed: I will go before you and make straight the crooked places; I will break in pieces the doors of bronze and cut asunder the bars of iron, I will give you the treasures of concealed places, and the secret wealth of hoarded objects, that you may know that it is I, Jehovah, who called you by your name, the God of Israel. For the sake of My servant Jacob, and of Israel My chosen, I have called you by your name. I have surnamed you when you did not know Me. Isaiah 45:1-4.

This also clearly refers to the Lord. In Micah,

In the latter days the mountain of the house of Jehovah will be established at the head of the mountains. Many nations will come and say, Come and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, and to the house of the God of Jacob, that He may teach us about His ways, and we will go in His paths. For out of Zion will go forth teaching, and the word of Jehovah from Jerusalem. Micah 4:1-2.

In David,

Jehovah loves the gates of Zion more than all the dwelling-places of Jacob. Glorious things are to be spoken in you, O city of God. Psalms 87:1-3.

In Jeremiah,

They will serve Jehovah their God and David their king, whom I will raise up for them. And do not fear, O My servant Jacob, and do not be dismayed, O Israel, for behold, I am saving you from afar. Jeremiah 30:9-10.

In Isaiah,

Listen to Me, O islands, and hearken, O peoples from afar. Jehovah called me from the womb, from my mother's body ² He remembered my name. And He said to me, You are My servant Israel in whom I will be rendered glorious. Isaiah 49:1, 3.

In the same prophet,

Then will you take delight in Jehovah and I will convey you over the high places of the earth, and I will feed you with the heritage of Jacob. Isaiah 58:14.

In the same prophet,

I will bring forth seed from Jacob, and from Judah the heir of My mountain, so mat My chosen ones may possess it, and My servants may dwell there. Isaiah 65:9.

[7] In all these places 'Jacob' and 'Israel' are used in the highest sense to mean the Lord, and in the representative sense the Lord's spiritual kingdom, and the Church which is the Church by virtue of the doctrine of truth and the life of good - 'Jacob' meaning those who are in the external aspects of that Church, and 'Israel' those who are in the internal. These and very many other places show that nowhere is 'Jacob' used to mean Jacob, or 'Israel' to mean Israel, any more than when the names 'Isaac' and 'Abraham' are used Isaac or Abraham is meant, as in Matthew,

Many will come from the east and from the west and will recline with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 8:11.

In Luke,

You will see Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets in the kingdom of God. Luke 13:28.

And in the same gospel,

Lazarus was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom. Luke 16:22.

For in heaven angels have no knowledge at all of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Angels there perceive nothing else from those words when read by man than the Lord as regards the Divine and the Divine Human. When man reads about reclining with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob they perceive nothing else than being with the Lord; and when about being in Abraham's bosom nothing else than resting in the Lord. Such wording has been used however because mankind at that time was so far removed from things of an internal nature that it neither knew nor wished to know anything other than this, that everything in the Word was to be taken literally. And when the Lord spoke to them in that literal manner He did so in order that they might receive faith, and also at the same time in order that the internal sense might be contained within what He said, by means of which mankind was joined to Himself. This being so one may see what is meant in the Old Testament Word by 'the God of Jacob' and by 'the Holy One of Israel', namely the Lord Himself. For places where 'the God of Jacob' means the Lord, see 2 Samuel 23:1; Isaiah 2:3; 41:21; Micah 4:2; Psalms 20:1; 46:7; 75:9; 76:6; 81:1, 4; 84:8; 94:7; 114:7; 132:2; 146:5; and for places where 'the Holy One of Israel' means the Lord, Isaiah 1:4; 5:19, 24; 10:20; 12:6; 17:7; 29:19; 30:11-12, 15; 31:1; 37:23; 41:14, 16, 20; 43:3, 14; 45:11; 47:4; 48:17; 49:7; 54:5; 55:5; 60:9, 14; Jeremiah 50:29; Ezekiel 39:7; Psalms 71:22; 78:41; 89:18.

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