9043. 'And her offspring come out' means if in spite of this it is made stronger in the natural. This is clear from the meaning of 'coming out' - when it refers to good that is being formed out of truths - as the passing of that good from the internal or spiritual man into the external or natural man, dealt with below; and from the meaning of 'offspring' as forms of good that have developed out of truths and then been acknowledged because they are both known and perceived and thereby been made stronger. For 'bearing offspring' in the spiritual sense means acknowledging in faith and action, 3905, 3915, 3919, 6585. The situation is that a person who is conceived anew, carried so to speak in the womb, and born - that is, who is being regenerated - first of all takes in from the teachings of the Church or from the Word matters of faith and charity. These are stored away at this time among items of knowledge in the memory that belongs to the external or natural man. From there they are summoned into the internal man and stored away in the memory belonging to the internal man. Regarding both these memories a person possesses, see 2469-2494. This is the beginning of spiritual life with a person; but the person is not as yet regenerate. For him to be regenerate his external or natural man must be subservient, and as a result must be in agreement with his internal man.

A person has not been regenerated until his external or natural man has also been regenerated, see 8742-8747.

The external man is regenerated by the Lord by means of the internal, 3286, 3321, 3493, 4588, 5651, 6299, 8746.

The whole person has been regenerated when his natural has been, 7442-7443.

[2] Now seeing that aspects of regeneration are expressed in the Word by the phases of a person's generation or birth from his parents in the world, one may recognize from the process of regeneration described above what is understood or meant in the spiritual sense by 'conception', 'being carried in the womb', 'going out of the womb', and 'offspring'. That is to say, 'going out of the womb' means passing from the internal man into the external or natural man; and 'offspring' means spiritual good, or the good of charity springing from the truths of faith, that comes from the internal man and is present in the external or natural. When good is present in the natural, then the person is new. Good now constitutes his life, and truths emanating from good constitute his outward form He is like an angel, for good constitutes angels' life and truths their outward form, which is the human form. But this makes no sense to the natural man.

3322. 'Therefore he called his name Edom' means the resulting nature of the good, to which matters of doctrine regarding truth were allied. This is clear from the meaning of 'calling the name' or calling by name as the essential nature, dealt with in 144, 145, 1754, 1896, 2009, 2724, 3006, and from the representation of 'Edom'. In the Word Esau is mentioned in various places, as also is Edom. In those places 'Esau' means the good of the natural before matters of doctrine regarding truth have been joined to it, and also before the good of life brought by an influx from the rational has been joined to it - to natural good; while 'Edom' means the good of the natural to which matters of doctrine regarding truth have been allied. But in the contrary sense 'Esau' means the evil stemming from self-love before falsities have been allied to it, that is to say, to self-love, while 'Edom' means the evil stemming from that love once they have been allied to it. The majority of names in the Word, as shown quite often, also have the contrary sense. The reason why is that in course of time the self-same things which in the Churches were forms of good and truth deteriorated into forms of evil and falsity through various kinds of adulterations.

[2] That 'Esau' and 'Edom' mean these things becomes clear from the following places: In Isaiah,

Who is this who is coming from Edom, with spattered clothes from Bozrah glorious in his apparel, marching in the vast numbers of his strength? Why are you red as to your clothing, and your clothes like his that treads in the winepress? I have trodden the winepress alone, and from the peoples no man was with me. I looked around but there was none helping, and I wondered, and there was nobody to uphold, and my own arm saved me. Isaiah 63:1-3, 5.

Here it is quite clear that 'Edom' is the Lord, and the fact that it is the Lord as regards the Divine Good of the Divine Natural is evident because the subject is the joining together of good and truth in the Lord's Human, and the conflicts brought about by temptations through which He joined the two together. 'Clothes' here means the truths of the natural man, or truths that are lower compared with other truths, see 2576, while 'red' is the good of the natural man, 3300. The Lord's work in which - by His own power, and through the conflicts brought about by temptations - He joined truths present there to good is described by the words 'I have trodden the winepress alone, and from the peoples no man was with me. I looked around but there was none helping; I wondered, and there was nobody to uphold, and my own arm saved me' - 'arm' meaning power, 878.

[3] In the Book of Judges,

O Jehovah. when You went forth from Seir, when You set out from the field of Edom, the earth trembled, the heavens also dropped, the clouds indeed dropped [water], the mountains flowed down. Judges 5:4-5.

'Setting out from the field of Edom' is almost the same in meaning as 'coming from Edom' in Isaiah. Likewise in Moses,

Jehovah came from Sinai, and dawned from Seir upon them. Deuteronomy 33:2.

In the same author,

I see Him, but not now; I behold Him, but not near. A star will arise out of Jacob, and a sceptre will rise up out of Israel. And Edom will be an inheritance, and Seir will be an inheritance, of his enemies - with Israel doing valiantly - and will have dominion in regard to Jacob, and will destroy what is left of the city. Numbers 24:17-19.

This refers to the Lord's Coming into the world, His Human Essence being called 'a star out of Jacob, and a sceptre out of Israel'. 'Edom' and 'Seir' which are to be 'an inheritance' stand for the Divine Good of the Lord's Divine Natural. Their becoming 'an inheritance of his enemies' stands for the fact that it would take the place of those things that existed previously in the Natural. Dominion at that time over the truths there is meant by 'he will have dominion over Jacob, and he will destroy what is left of the city' - 'Jacob' being the truth of the natural, 3305, and 'a city' doctrine, 402, 2268, 2449, 2712, 2943, 3216. Dominion is said to be had over those truths when they are subsidiary to and subject to good. Before this comes about they are called enemies because they constantly offer resistance, as shown above in 3321.

[4] In Amos,

On that day I will raise up the tent of David that is fallen down, and I will close up their breaches, and I will restore its destroyed places, and I will build it as in the days of old, that they may possess the remnants of Edom, and all the nations which have been called by My name. Amos 9:11-12.

'The tent of David' stands for the Church and worship of the Lord; 'the remnants of Edom' for those within the Church who are governed by good, 'the nations which have been called by His name' for those outside the Church who are governed by good - 'the nations' being those who are governed by good, 1259, 1260, 1416, 1849. In David,

Upon Edom I will cast my shoe. Who will bring me to the fortified city? Who will lead me even to Edom? Will not You, O God? Psalms 60:8-10.

'Edom' stands for the good of the natural. Its being the good of the natural is evident from the meaning of 'shoe' as the lowest part of the natural, 1748.

[5] In Daniel,

At the time of the end the king of the south will clash with him; therefore the king of the north will rush upon him like a whirlwind with chariots, and will overflow and penetrate; and when he comes into the glorious land many will fall These however will be delivered out of his hand, Edom and Moab, and the firstfruits of the children of Ammon. Daniel 11:40-41.

This refers to the final state of the Church. 'The king of the north' stands for falsities, or what amounts to the same, for people in possession of falsities. 'Edom' stands for those in whom simple good is present, the type of good that exists with those who constitute the Lord's external Church. The same applies to 'Moab' and 'the children of Ammon', 2468; and as the two of them, that is to say, Edom and Moab, mean those in whom natural good exists, both are therefore mentioned together in many places. But the difference between them is that 'Edom' is the good of the natural to which matters of doctrine concerning truth have been allied, whereas 'Moab' is natural good such as also exists with those with whom the two have not been joined together. Both sets of people seem to outward appearance to be alike, but they are not so inwardly.

[6] From this it is now evident why it was said that they were not to abhor an Edomite since he was a brother, nor an Egyptian since they had been strangers in his land, Deuteronomy 23:7. Because 'an Edomite' means the good of the natural, and 'an Egyptian' means the truths of the same, which are facts, 1164, 1165, 1186, 1462, therefore the two are mentioned in the good sense. It is also evident why Jehovah told Moses that they were not to quarrel ¹ with the children of Esau, for none of their territory would be given to the children of Jacob, not even enough to leave a footprint, Deuteronomy 2:4-6.

[7] In the contrary sense however Esau and Edom represent those who turn away from good by utterly despising truth and who are unwilling to associate any truth of faith at all with it, which happens chiefly for reasons of self-love. Consequently Esau and Edom in the contrary sense mean those people The same was also represented by the king of Edom coming out with many people and a strong force and refusing to let Israel pass across his frontier, Numbers 20:14-22. This evil, that is to say, the evil of self-love, which is such as does not accept the truths of faith, nor thus matters of doctrine concerning truth, is described in various places in the Word as Esau and Edom, the state of the Church when it comes to be such also being described at the same time; as in Jeremiah,

Against Edom. Is there no wisdom any longer in Teman? Has counsel perished from those who have intelligence? Has their wisdom become rotten? Flee! They have turned themselves away, they have gone down to dwell in the deep, O inhabitants of Dedan, for I will bring the calamity of Esau upon him. I will strip Esau bare, I will uncover his secret places, and he is not able to be concealed. His seed have been laid waste, and his brothers, and his neighbours. Leave your orphans, I will keep them alive, and let your widows trust in Me. Edom will become a waste; everyone who passes by it will be astonished and will hiss at all its plagues. Jeremiah 49:7-8, 10-11, 17, and following verses.

[8] In David,

They say, Let not the name of Israel be remembered any more, for they consult together with one accord; against You they make a covenant - the tents of Edom, and the Ishmaelites, and Moab, and the Hagrites. Psalms 83:4-6.

In Obadiah,

Thus said the Lord Jehovih to Edom, Behold, I have made you small among the nations; you are utterly despised. The pride of your heart has deceived you, you who dwell in the clefts of the rock, whose seat is on high, who say in your heart, Who will bring me down to the ground? Though you exalt yourself like the eagle, and though you set your nest among the stars, from there will I bring you down. How are the men of Esau searched out, their hidden treasures sought out! Will I not on that day destroy the wise men out of Edom, and those who have intelligence out of Mount Esau, so that your mighty men may be dismayed, O Teman, and every man from Mount Esau cut off by slaughter? For the violence done to Jacob your brother shame will cover you, and you will be cut off for ever. The house of Jacob will be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau turned into stubble; and they will burn them and consume them, and there will be nothing left over to the house of Esau. And the people of the south will inherit the mountain of Esau. Obad. verses 1-4, 6, 8-10, 18, 19, 21.

'Edom' and 'Esau' here stand for the evil of the natural man, which evil, arising out of self-love, despises and rejects all truth - which leads to its devastation.

[9] In Ezekiel,

Son of man, set your face against Mount Seir, and prophesy against it, and say to it, Thus said the Lord Jehovih, I am against you, Mount Seir, and I will stretch out My hand against you, and I will make you a waste and a desolation. Because you possess eternal enmity, and give over the children of Israel to the power of the sword ² in the time of their disaster and in the time of the iniquity of the end. Because you said concerning the two nations and the two lands, They are mine and we will inherit them - and Jehovah is there. And you will know that I Jehovah have heard all your insults which you have uttered against the mountains of Israel. You will be a waste, Mount Seir, and all Edom. the whole of it. Ezekiel 35:2-5, 8-10, 12, 15.

Here it is quite clear that 'Edom' in the contrary sense is those who despise, reject, and insult spiritual goods and truths, meant by 'the mountains of Israel'.

[10] In the same prophet,

Thus said the Lord Jehovih, Surely in the fire of My jealousy have I spoken against the remnants of the nations, and against the whole of Edom, who have given My land to themselves as an inheritance with the joy of all [their] heart, with utter contempt. ³ Ezekiel 36:5.

Here similarly 'giving the land to themselves as an inheritance' stands for laying waste the Church, that is, good and truth that are the Church's.

[11] In Malachi,

The Word of Jehovah against Israel; I have loved you, said Jehovah, and you say, How have You loved us? Is not Esau Jacob's brother? And I love Jacob, and I hate Esau and am making his mountain into a waste. Malachi 1:1-3.

Here 'Esau' stands for the evil of the natural which does not accept spiritual truth, meant by 'Israel', 3305, or the doctrine of truth, meant by 'Jacob', 3305, and is for that reason 'laid waste', meant by 'hating'. For 'hating' has no other meaning, as is evident from what has been introduced above from the Word regarding Esau and Edom in the good sense. But when truth does not allow itself to be allied to good, Jacob is referred to in a contrary way, as in Hosea,

He will make a visitation on Jacob over his ways and requite him according to his deeds; in the womb he supplanted his brother. Hosea 12:2-3.

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