5121. 'And Joseph said to him, This is the interpretation of it' means revelation resulting from the perception received by the celestial within the natural as to what it held within it. This is clear from the meaning of 'saying' in the historical narratives of the Word as perception, dealt with in 1791, 1815, 1819, 1822, 1898, 1919, 2080, 2619, 2862, 3509, 3395, in this case as revelation resulting from perception, since the subject is a dream and its interpretation, and all revelation is either the result of talking to angels through whom the Lord speaks or else the result of perception, dealt with below; from the representation of 'Joseph' as the celestial within the natural, dealt with above in 5086, 5087, 5106; and from the meaning of 'the interpretation' as what it held within it, also dealt with above, in 5093, 5105, 5107. From this it is evident that 'Joseph said to him, This is the interpretation of it' means revelation resulting from the perception received by the celestial within the natural as to what it held within it.

[2] With regard to revelations resulting either from perception or from talking to angels through whom the Lord speaks, it should be recognized that people who are governed by good and from this by truth, especially those who are governed by good flowing from love to the Lord, receive revelation as a result of perception. But those who are not governed by good or from this by truth can indeed receive revelations, but not those that are the result of perception, only those which come to them through a voice which they hear speaking within themselves and so through angels from the Lord. This kind of revelation is external, whereas the other kind is internal. Revelation resulting from perception is the kind that angels, especially celestial ones, receive. It was also the kind received by members of the Most Ancient Church, and by some members of the Ancient Church too; but scarcely anyone receives such at the present day. Very many people however, including those who have not been governed by good, have received revelations from conversations [with angels] which did not involve any perception, the same as with those receiving revelations through visions or through dreams.

[3] Most of the revelations received by the prophets in the Jewish Church were of this kind - they heard a voice, saw a vision, or dreamed a dream. But because they had no perception these were merely verbal or visual revelations which did not involve any perception about what was really meant by them. For genuine perception comes from the Lord through heaven; it fills the understanding with spiritual ideas and leads it, as may be perceived, to think along the lines of, and inwardly to recognize, the true nature of a thing. The source of that power of recognition is not known, but the understanding imagines that it begins within itself and springs from the interconnected ideas it has present within itself. But in fact that power is a dictate coming from the Lord by way of heaven into the interior parts of ones thought regarding the things that are above and beyond the natural and the senses, that is, the kinds of things that belong to the spiritual world or heaven. From all this one may see what revelation resulting from perception is. But the revelation resulting from perception which the Lord, who is represented here by 'Joseph', had - which revelation is the subject here in the internal sense - sprang from the Divine within Himself, and so originated in Himself.

3614. 'Until your brother's wrath turns back' means until the state changes; and 'until your brother's anger turns back from you' means the subsequent stage of the state with natural good. This is clear from the meaning of 'wrath' and of 'anger' as states that are antagonistic to each other, dealt with below. And when these states become such that they cease to be antagonistic any longer and begin to join together, wrath is said to turn back and anger to turn back. Consequently 'until your brother's wrath turns back' means until the state changes, and 'until your brother's anger turns back' means the subsequent stage of the state with natural good. 'Wrath' implies something different from 'anger', as may be seen from the fact that in addition to their being similar expressions it is a pointless repetition to say, 'Until your brother's wrath turns back' and then 'until your brother's anger turns back'. What each implies is evident from the general explanation and also from that to which wrath and anger are each used to refer. 'Wrath' is used in reference to truth, in this case to the truth of good, represented by 'Esau', while 'anger' is used in reference to that good itself.

[2] 'Wrath' and 'anger' are mentioned many times in the Word, but in the internal sense they do not mean wrath or anger but that which is antagonistic. The reason for this is that whatever is antagonistic towards any affection produces wrath or anger; so that in the internal sense simply forms of antagonism are meant by those two expressions. 'Wrath' is used to describe that which is antagonistic towards truth and 'anger' that which is antagonistic towards good; but in the contrary sense 'wrath' describes that which is antagonistic towards falsity or the affection for it, that is, towards false assumptions, while 'anger' describes that which is antagonistic towards evil or the desire for it, that is, towards self-love and love of the world. Also, in this contrary sense actual wrath is meant by 'wrath', and actual anger by 'anger'; but when those expressions are used in reference to good and truth the wrath and anger which are manifestations of zeal are meant. And because this zeal is to outward appearance like wrath and anger it is called such in the sense of the letter.

[3] As regards 'wrath' or 'anger' in the internal sense meaning simply forms of antagonism, this may be seen from the following places in the Word: In Isaiah,

Jehovah's indignation is against all the nations, and wrath against all their host. Isaiah 34:2.

'Jehovah's indignation against the nations' stands for antagonism towards evil - 'the nations' meaning evils, see 1259, 1260, 1849, 1868, 2588 (end). 'Wrath against all their host' stands for antagonism towards falsities derived from that evil, for by 'the stars' - here called 'the host of heaven' - are meant cognitions, and so truths, and in the contrary sense falsities, see 1128, 1808, 2120, 2495, 2849. In the same prophet,

Who gave Jacob over to plunder, and Israel to spoilers? Was it not Jehovah against whom we have sinned? And He poured out upon him the wrath of His anger. Isaiah 42:24-25.

'Wrath of anger' stands for antagonism towards falsity stemming from evil, 'Jacob' for people under the influence of evil, and 'Israel' for those under the influence of falsity.

[4] In the same prophet,

I have trodden the winepress alone, and from the peoples there was no man (vir) with Me. I trod them in My anger, and destroyed them in My wrath. And I trod down the peoples in My anger, and made them drunk in My wrath. Isaiah 63:3, 6.

This refers to the Lord and His victories in temptations. 'Treading' and 'treading down in anger' stand for victories over evils, 'destroying' and 'making drunk in wrath' for victories over falsities. In the Word 'treading down' has reference to evil, and 'making drunk' to falsity. In Jeremiah,

Thus said the Lord Jehovih. Behold, My anger and My wrath have been poured out on this place, on man, and on beast, and on the tree of the field, and on the fruit of the ground; and it will burn and not be quenched. Jeremiah 7:20.

Both are mentioned - 'anger' and 'wrath' - because both evil and falsity are the subject.

[5] In the Prophets, whenever evil is mentioned so also is falsity, even as whenever good is mentioned so also is truth, the reason being the heavenly marriage, which is the marriage of good and truth in every detail of the Word, 683, 793, 801, 2173, 2516, 2712. It is also why 'anger' and 'wrath' are both mentioned; otherwise one of them would be enough. In the same prophet,

I Myself will fight against you with outstretched hand and strong arm, and in anger, and in wrath, and in great indignation; and I will smite the inhabitants of this city, both man and beast. Jeremiah 21:5-6.

Here in a similar way 'anger' has reference to the punishment of evil, 'wrath' to the punishment of falsity, and 'indignation' to that of both. Since anger and wrath describe antagonism they also mean punishment, for things antagonistic to one another also clash with one another; and in that case evil and falsity suffer punishment. For evil holds within itself antagonism towards good, and falsity holds within itself antagonism towards truth. And because there is antagonism a clash also occurs; and from this punishment results, see 696, 967.

[6] In Ezekiel,

And My anger will be accomplished, and I will make My wrath on them die down, and I will be comforted; and they will know that I Jehovah have spoken in My zeal, when accomplishing My wrath on them - when executing judgements on you in anger and in wrath and in wrathful rebukes. Ezekiel 5:13, 15.

Here also 'anger' stands for the punishment of evil, and 'wrath' for the punishment of falsity, that result from antagonism and consequent aggression. In Moses,

Jehovah will not be pleased to pardon him, for then the anger of Jehovah, and His zeal, will smoke against that man, and Jehovah will separate him as evil from all the tribes of Israel. The whole land will be brimstone and salt, a burning; it will not be sown, and it will not sprout, nor will any plant come up on it, as at the overthrow of Sodom and Gomorrah, of Admah and Zeboiim, which Jehovah overthrew in His anger and His wrath. And all the nations will say, Why has Jehovah done this to this land? What means the heat of this great anger? Deuteronomy 29:20-21, 23-24.

Since 'Sodom' means evil, and 'Gomorrah' falsity deriving from this, 2220, 2246, 232, and the nation to which Moses is referring here is compared to those nations as regards evil and falsity, the expression 'anger' is used in reference to evil, 'wrath' in reference to falsity, and 'the heat of anger' to both. Such passions as these are attributed to Jehovah or the Lord according to the appearance, for the Lord does seem to man to display such when man enters into evil and evil punishes him, see 245, 592, 696, 1093, 1683, 1874, 2335, 2395, 2447, 3605.