548. But that they should torment them five months.- That this signifies that the understanding should be darkened by the falsities of evil, and be drawn away from seeing truth, so long as they are in that state, is evident from the signification of tormenting, which denotes to darken as to the understanding, and to be withdrawn from seeing truth, of which we shall treat presently; and from the signification of five months, as denoting so long as they remain in that state. To torment here signifies to darken as to the understanding, and to be drawn away from seeing truth, because it is stated of the locusts, and their power of hurting like scorpions, and by the locusts is meant the ultimate of the life of man, which is called the Sensual, and by the power of hurting like scorpions is signified the persuasive [power], which is of such a nature, as to take away from the understanding the light of truth, and bring on infernal darkness; therefore it now follows, that their torment was as the torment of a scorpion when he strikes a man, for the scorpion signifies such a persuasive [power], as may be seen above (n. 544). This is said to torment, because it is said above, that the locusts should hurt men, but should not kill them; and he who hurts, and does not kill, torments. The persuasive [power] also in the sensual man, that is in the falsities of evil, hurts the understanding by darkening and drawing it away from seeing truth, although it does not deprive it of the power of understanding and perceiving; and because it is compared with the pain inflicted by a scorpion when it strikes a man, it is said to torment.

[2] The reason why five months signify so long as men are in that state, is, that a month signifies a state, and the number five signifies somewhat, and hence also, so long as. Months signify states, because all times, in the Word, as ages, years, weeks, days, and hours, signify states of life; hence also months, see the Heaven and Hell 162-169).

That five signifies somewhat, is evident from those passages in the Word, where that number occurs. For the numbers 10, 100, 1000, signify much and all, hence five signifies somewhat. For those numbers which signify much, arise from the number five, which signifies somewhat, and the numbers that are compounded and derived, take their signification from the simple numbers, from which, by multiplication, they are compounded and derived, see above (n. 429, 430:2). The number five also signifies so long as, because it is said, five months, and by five months is there signified a state of duration. This signification of five months appears to be a remote one, from this fact, that man so long as he lives in the world, is in natural thought, and natural thought derives its ideas from spaces and times, and also from numbers and measures; for these things are proper to nature, because all things in nature are determined by them. But spiritual thought is without any fixed idea of space, time, number, and measure; and therefore it appears far fetched and strange to man in the world, that five months should signify "so long as that state continues," that is to say, so long as the state of the persuasion of falsity continues, for so long is the understanding darkened, and drawn away from seeing the truth; but when the persuasion of falsity is removed, man comes into the faculty of seeing truth, if he desire to see it, and this faculty is given to every man.

[3] That five, in the Word, signifies somewhat and some, also all of such a quality, and similar things, is clear from the following: Jesus said that the kingdom of the heavens is like to ten virgins of whom "five were wise, and five were foolish" (Matthew 25:1, 2). The Lord compared the kingdom of the heavens to ten virgins, because the kingdom of the heavens signifies the church, and a virgin has a similar signification; and ten virgins signify all who are of the church. It is said, that five were wise and five foolish, because five signifies some of them, or all who are of such a quality on one part. That a virgin signifies the church, is evident from many passages in the Word, where mention is made of the virgin of Zion, the virgin of Jerusalem, the virgin of Israel, for these signify the church.

[4] The same is signified by ten, and by five, in the parable of the Lord concerning the nobleman who gave talents (minoe, mna [Greek]) to his servants to trade with, and one made of his talent ten talents, and another made five talents of his talents, and therefore they had authority over as many cities (Luke 19:13-20). The numbers ten and five were mentioned by the Lord, because ten signifies much, and five, somewhat; but by their trading is signified the acquisition and procuring of heavenly intelligence; and by their having authority over cities, is signified intelligence and wisdom, for a city signifies in the Word, doctrine, and to have authority over it, signifies to be intelligent and wise, and over ten cities, signifies much, and over five, signifies some.

[5] Also some, and all who are of such quality, are signified by the number five in the parable of the Lord concerning the rich man and Lazarus, in which it is said that the rich man told Abraham that he had five brethren, and he besought that Lazarus might be sent to them (Luke 16:27, 28). The rich man said that he had five brethren because by five are signified all who are of such a quality.

Similarly, in the parable of the Lord concerning those who were invited to the great supper, one of them excused himself on the ground that he had bought five yoke of oxen, and must go to prove them (Luke 14:19). By oxen in the Word are signified the natural affections, and by five yoke of oxen are signified all those affections or disorderly desires that lead away from heaven; heaven and the church, in regard to spiritual nourishment or instruction, are signified by the great supper to which they were invited. Who cannot see that the number five in these four parables involves some interior truth, since it is used by the Lord?

[6] So again, in Isaiah:

"In that day there shall be five cities in the land of Egypt speaking with the lips of Canaan, and swearing to Jehovah of hosts. In that day shall there be an altar to Jehovah in the midst of the land of Egypt" (19:18, 19).

In that day, signifies the coming of the Lord; "five cities in the land of Egypt speaking with the lips of Canaan," signifies, that some who are then natural shall become spiritual, and shall acknowledge the truths of genuine doctrine, and shall worship the Lord from the good of charity. These things are explained in detail above (n. 223:14). Here, therefore, mention is made of five cities, as some at that time are meant, and also some truths of doctrine.

[7] So again:

"Gleaning grapes shall be left in it, as the shaking of an olive tree, two-three berries in the top of the bough, four-five in the branches of the fruitful tree" (17:6).

And Jesus said in Luke:

"From henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three" (12:52).

That in these passages five also signifies some, and all who are of such a quality, may be seen above (n. 532), where both these passages are explained.

A law was given to the Israelites that he who stole, or slew, or sold an ox, should restore five oxen (Exodus 22:1). Here an ox, in the spiritual sense, means the good of the natural man; by restoring five oxen for an ox, is signified that he shall sufficiently amend what he had perverted and extinguished. To steal means to take away, to kill is to extinguish, and to sell is to pervert.

[8] By the fifth part also is signified as much as is sufficient in the following passages: Leviticus 5:16; 6:5; 22:14; 27:13, 15, 19, 27, 31; Num. 5:6-8. The same is also signified by the fifths which Pharaoh took up from the land of Egypt during the seven years of plenty (Genesis 41:34; 47:24). Again, the same is signified by Abner's smiting Asahel with the hinder end of his spear at the fifth [rib] (2 Sam. 2:23); at the fifth rib signifies as much as was sufficient for death; for the same number that signifies somewhat, and the all of one part, also signifies as much as is sufficient, when it is used of quantity, and so long as, when it is used of time.

[9] Since this number signifies some, and the all of one part, therefore it also signifies little and few, when a great quantity, which is also marked by numbers, follows or precedes; for then the all of one part is respectively few.

Thus in Isaiah:

"One thousand at the rebuke of one; at the rebuke of five shall ye flee" (30:17).

And in Moses it is said among the curses that five should chase a hundred, and a hundred, ten thousand (Leviticus 26:8). And in the Evangelists it is stated that the Lord fed five thousand men with five loaves and two fishes (Matthew 14:15-22; Mark 6:38-43; Luke 9:13-16; John 6:9-13). The taking up of twelve baskets of the fragments on that occasion signifies fulness, thus fulness of instruction, and also full benediction.

[10] In Luke by five are signified few, where it is said,

"Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God? Fear not therefore; ye are of more value than many sparrows" (12:6, 7).

Here five sparrows are mentioned, because five denotes what is few and of little value compared to men, for it is afterwards said, "ye are of more value than many sparrows." Any one can see that this number would not have been mentioned so often by the Lord unless it had been significative. Since five signifies all of one part, therefore it was also commanded that over the tabernacle they should make ten curtains, five curtains to be coupled together one to another, and five curtains to be coupled one to another (Exodus 26:1, 3). That ten signifies all in the aggregate, and five the all of one and of the other part, may be seen in the Arcana Coelestia 9595, 9604).

388. The fourth experience.

I talked with some of those who are meant in Revelation by the dragon, and one of them said: 'Come with me, and I will show you what delights our eyes and hearts.'

So he took me through a dark wood and up a hill, from which I could watch the pleasures of the dragons. I saw an amphitheatre constructed in the shape of a ring surrounded by benches running up in tiers, on which the spectators were sitting. Those sitting on the lowest benches looked to be from a distance like satyrs and priapi ¹ ; some had clothing to conceal their private parts, and some without it were totally naked. On the benches above them sat fornicators and prostitutes, as it appeared to me by the gestures they made.

Then the dragon said to me: 'Now you will see our sport.' I saw let into the space in the ring what looked like calves, rams, ewes, kids and lambs; and when they were inside, a gate was opened and in rushed what looked like young lions, panthers, tigers and wolves. These furiously attacked the cattle, tore them in pieces and massacred them. After this bloody slaughter the satyrs sprinkled sand over the place where they had been killed.

[2] Then the dragon said to me: 'These are the sports which delight our minds.' 'Away with you, demon,' I replied, 'in a short while you will see this amphitheatre turned into a lake of fire and brimstone.' He laughed at this and went away. But afterwards I began to reflect why such things are permitted by the Lord. I received a reply in my heart, that they are permitted so long as people are in the world of spirits; but once their time in that world is up, such theatrical scenes are turned into the torments of hell.

[3] Everything which I saw had been the product of the dragon's imagination. So they were not really calves, rams, ewes, kids and lambs, but they made the genuine kinds of good and truth in the church, which they hated, appear in this form. The lions, panthers, tigers and wolves were the forms taken by the desires of the people who looked like satyrs and priapi. The ones with no clothing around their private parts were those who believed that evils were not manifest to God; those who had some clothing were those who believed that evils were manifest, but did not damn a person so long as he had faith. The fornicators and prostitutes were those who falsify the truths of the Word, for fornication means the falsification of truth. In the spiritual world everything at a distance looks like what it corresponds to, and when these take visible form they are called representations of spiritual things in the form of objects resembling those in the natural world.

[4] Later on I saw them emerging from the wood, the dragon in the midst of satyrs and priapi, with servants and camp-followers, who were the fornicators and prostitutes, coming after them. The column they formed grew as they went, and then I heard what they were discussing.

They were saying they had seen in a meadow a flock of sheep with lambs, and this was a sign that close by was one of the Jerusalem cities, where charity is the leading characteristic. 'Let us go,' they said, 'and capture that city, expel the inhabitants and plunder their property.' So they approached, but there was a wall around it, and angels on the wall to guard it. So then they said: 'Let us capture it by a trick. Let us send them someone skilled in sophistry, who can make black appear white and white black, and put a colourable gloss on anything.'

So they found someone who was an expert in metaphysics, able to turn real ideas into terminological ones, conceal the facts under forms of words, and so fly off like a hawk with its prey beneath its wings. He was told what to say to the people in the city, that they were co-religionists and should be let in. He went up to the gate and knocked, and when it was opened he said that he wished to speak with the wisest person in the city. He went in and was taken to someone, whom he addressed in these words: 'My brethren are outside the city, begging to be admitted. They are your co-religionists, for you and we both make faith and charity the two essentials of religion. The only difference is, that you put charity first and derive faith from it, and we put faith first and derive charity from it. What does it matter which is put first, when we believe in both?'

[5] The wise citizen replied: 'Let us not discuss this subject by ourselves, but in the presence of a larger audience who can act as umpires and judges. Otherwise we shall not reach a decision.' So more people were soon summoned, and they were addressed by the dragon's ambassador in similar words to those he had previously used.

Then the wise citizen made his reply: 'You have said that it is much the same whether charity or faith is regarded as the leading matter in the church, so long as there is agreement that either of them constitutes the church and its religion. Yet the difference is like that between prior and posterior, cause and effect, principal and instrumental, and essential and formal. I use these terms because I notice that you are an expert on metaphysics, a subject we call mere sophistry, and some people call magic formulas. But let us drop these terms. The difference is like that between what is above and what is beneath. Or rather, if you will believe me, it is the difference between the minds of those in this world who live on the upper level and the minds of those on the lower level. For the leading point constitutes the head and chest, and what is derived from it the feet and the soles of the feet. But first of all let us agree on the definition of charity and faith. Charity is the affection of the love of doing good to the neighbour for the sake of God, salvation and everlasting life; and faith is thinking from a trust in God, salvation and everlasting life.

[6] But the ambassador said: 'I agree that this is the definition of faith, and I also agree that charity is that affection for the sake of God, because it is for the sake of His commandment, but not for the sake of salvation and eternal life.' After this partial agreement and partial disagreement, the wise citizen said: 'Is not affection or liking the leading point, and thought derived from it?' The dragon's ambassador said: 'This I deny.'

But he was answered: 'You cannot deny it. Surely anyone thinks as the result of some liking. Take away the liking, and can he think at all? It is exactly as if you removed the sound from speech; if you took away the sound, could you say anything? Sound too is the product of the affection of some love or other, and speech is the product of thought, for love makes a sound and thought puts it into words. It is also like a flame and light; if you take away the flame, is not the light extinguished? It is much the same with charity, because this is the product of love, and with faith, because this is the product of thought. Can you not thus grasp that the leading point is all-important for the secondary, exactly as the flame is for the light? It is obvious from this that if you do not put the leading point first, you cannot have the second either. Therefore, if you put faith, which is in the second place, in first place, you cannot fail to appear in heaven as upside down, with your feet uppermost and your head down, or like a clown who walks upside down on the palms of his hands. When you look like this in heaven, what then will your good deeds look like, which are charity in action? They can only be the sort of things the clown does with his feet, since he cannot do them with his hands. That is why your charity is natural rather than spiritual, since it is upside down.'

[7] The ambassador understood this, since every devil can understand truth when he hears it; but he is unable to keep it in his memory, because the affection for evil, which is essentially the longing of the flesh, on its return expels thought of the truth. Afterwards the wise citizen showed at some length what is the nature of faith when it is taken as the leading point, namely, that it is purely natural, a conviction devoid of any spiritual life, and in consequence no faith at all. 'And I can almost say that there is no more spirituality in your faith, than there is in thinking about the Mogul empire, the diamond mine in it, and the treasury or court of that emperor.' On hearing this the dragon's man went off in anger and reported to his companions outside the city. When they heard it had been said that charity is the affection of the love of doing good to the neighbour for the sake of [God,] ² salvation and everlasting life, they all shouted: 'This is a lie!', and the dragon himself cried: 'Ah, what a crime! Surely all charitable deeds if they are done for the sake of salvation, are merit-seeking?'

[8] Then they said to one another: 'Let us summon still more of our people, and lay siege to this city, and let us expel these paragons of charity.' But when they attempted this, a sudden flash of fire from heaven consumed them. But the fire from heaven was a manifestation of their anger and hatred directed against the people in the city, since they had cast down faith from first to second place, or rather to the lowest place beneath charity, since they claimed that it was no faith. The reason they appeared to be consumed by fire was that hell opened up beneath their feet, and they were swallowed up. Similar events to this occurred in many places on the day of the Last Judgment; this too is the meaning of the following passage in Revelation:

The dragon will come forth to lead astray the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, to assemble them for war; and they went up on the surface of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints, and the beloved city. But fire came down from God out of heaven and consumed them, Revelation 20:8-9.

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