8782. 'In order that the people may hear when I speak to you' means in order that those belonging to the spiritual Church may have some understanding of Divine things. This is clear from the meaning of 'hearing' as discerning, dealt with in 5017, and so having some understanding; from the representation of the children of Israel, to whom 'the people' refers here, as those who belong to the spiritual Church, dealt with often; and from the meaning of 'when I speak' as Divine Truths, for 'Jehovah's voice' is Divine Truth, 219, 220, 3563, 6971, and so also is His speech.

4652. CORRESPONDENCE WITH THE GRAND MAN, WHICH IS HEAVEN - continued

IN THIS SECTION THE CORRESPONDENCE OF HEARING AND OF THE EARS WITH HEAVEN

The nature of the correspondence that exists between the soul and the body - that is, between the things constituting a person's inward spirit and those constituting his outward body - may be clearly recognized from the correspondence, influx, and communication of thought and discernment, which are functions of the spirit, with speech and hearing, which are functions of the body. When a person is speaking, his thought is nothing else than the power of speech which his spirit possesses, while his discernment of speech is nothing else than the power of hearing which his spirit possesses. When a person speaks, his thought does not, it is true, present itself to him as speech because it links itself to and is present within the power of speech that his body possesses. And when he hears something his discernment of it seems to him to be simply a hearing within his ear. For this reason the majority of people who have not stopped to reflect on the matter do not know that all five senses are located somewhere else than within organs belonging to the body; so they think that when these organs cease to function through death no sensory perception remains, when in actual fact a person, that is, his spirit, then passes into a life of perfect sensory perception.

[2] The fact that it is the spirit which has the powers of speech and hearing has become quite clear to me from my conversations with spirits. Their speech was communicated to my spirit; it entered my own interior power of speech, and from there into the organs corresponding to it. What they communicated ended as an endeavour in me, which I have perceived clearly on several occasions. Consequently I have heard what they said in tones as clear as anything spoken by someone on earth. Sometimes spirits have spoken to me while I was among a group of people, and some of those spirits have imagined that, because I could hear so clearly what they - the spirits - said, those people present with me could hear them too. But I have told them that their speech was flowing into my ear by the internal route, whereas human speech comes in by the external route. From this one may see how a spirit spoke to one of the prophets - not as a man speaks to another man but as a spirit speaks to a man, that is to say, within him - as in Zechariah 1:9, 13, 19; 2:3; 4:1, 4-5; 5:5, 10; 6:4; and elsewhere. But I realize that these matters are unintelligible to people who do not believe that man is a spirit, the body serving him solely for functions to be performed in the world. Those who have become quite convinced that man is not a spirit refuse even to listen to talk about any kind of correspondence; and if they do listen they reject what they hear because they have a negative attitude Indeed they are unhappy if anything is said not to belong to the body.