904. That 'God spoke to Noah' means the Lord's presence with the member of the Church becomes clear from the internal sense of the Word. The Lord speaks to everybody, for whatever good and truth a person wills and thinks comes from the Lord. With everyone there are at least two evil spirits and two angels. The former activate his evils whereas the latter instill goods and truths. Every good or truth that angels instill is the Lord's; in this way the Lord is constantly speaking to man, though quite differently from one person to the next. To people who allow themselves to be carried away by evil spirits the Lord speaks as though He were not present, or so far away that He can hardly be said to be speaking. But to those who are being led by the Lord, the Lord speaks as one who is quite present. This becomes clear enough from the fact that nobody can possibly think of anything good and true except from the Lord.

[2] The Lord's presence is relative to the state of love towards the neighbour and of faith present in a person. It is in love towards the neighbour that the Lord is present, for He is present in all good, and not so much in so-called faith that is devoid of love. Faith devoid of love and charity is something severed or disjoined. Wherever conjunction exists there has to be a conjoining agency, which is exclusively love and charity. This may become clear to anyone from the fact that the Lord has compassion on everybody, loves everyone, and wishes to make everyone eternally happy. A person therefore who is devoid of the kind of love that leads him to have compassion on others, to love them, and to wish to make them happy, cannot be joined to the Lord because he is not at all like Him, and is in no sense the image of Him. Looking to the Lord by means of that which goes by the name of faith while hating the neighbour amounts not only to standing a long way off, but also to having between himself and the Lord a hell-like chasm into which the person would fall if he wished to go any nearer. For it is hatred towards the neighbour that constitutes that intervening hell-like chasm.

[3] The Lord is present with a person the moment he starts to love the neighbour. It is in love that the Lord is present, and to the extent that a person has love the Lord is present. And to the extent that the Lord is present He speaks to man. No one knows anything other than that he thinks from himself. Yet he possesses not one single idea of thought, not even the shred of an idea, from himself. Rather that which is evil and false he possesses through evil spirits from hell, and that which is good and true through angels from the Lord. Such is influx, the channel by which a person's life comes and by which consequently his soul interacts with the body. All these considerations make clear what 'God spoke to Noah' means. 'Saying to someone' means one thing, as in Genesis 1:29; 3:13-14, 17; 4:6, 9, 15; 6:13; 7:1, while 'speaking to someone' means another. Here speaking to Noah' means His being present, for the subject now is the regenerate person, who has had charity conferred on him.

648. As for numbers and measurements in the Word meaning celestial and spiritual things, this becomes quite clear from the measuring of the New Jerusalem and of the Temple in John and Ezekiel. It may become clear to anyone that the 'New Jerusalem' and the 'New Temple' mean the Lord's kingdom in heaven and on earth, and that the Lord's kingdom in heaven and on earth is not subject to earthly measurements, even though the size of it - its length, breadth, and height - is specified numerically. From this anyone may conclude that numbers and measurements mean things that are holy, as in John,

I was given a measuring rod like a staff, and the angel stood and said to me, Rise and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and those who worship in it. Revelation 11:1.

And concerning the New Jerusalem,

The wall of the heavenly Jerusalem was great and high, having twelve gates, and above the gates twelve angels, and names written which are those of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel; on the east three gates, on the north three gates, on the south three gates, and on the west three gates. The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them the twelve names of the apostles of the Lamb. He who talked to me had a golden measuring-rod to measure the city, and its gates, and its wall. The city lies four-square, and its length is the same as its breadth. He therefore measured the city with the measuring rod, twelve thousand stadia; its length and breadth and height were equal. He measured its wall, a hundred and forty-four cubits, which is the measure of a man, that is, of an angel. Revelation 21:12-17.

[2] Here the number twelve occurs repeatedly. It is a very holy number since it means the holy things of faith, as has been stated above at verse 3 of this chapter, and in the Lord's Divine mercy will be shown at Genesis 29, 30. Hence also the comment added at the end of the quotation set out above about this measure being 'the measure of a man, that is, of an angel'. The same applies with the New Temple and the New Jerusalem in Ezekiel, which are also described according to their measurements, Chapter 40:3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13-14, 22, 25, 30, 36, 42, 47; Ezekiel 41:1-end; 42:5-15; Zechariah 2:1-2. There also, regarded in themselves the numbers mean nothing but celestial and spiritual holiness independent of actual numbers. The same applies to all the numbers giving the dimensions of the Ark, Exodus 25:10, and similarly of the mercy seat, the golden table, the Tabernacle, the altar, Exodus 25:17, 23; Exodus 26; 27:1; and to all the numbers and dimensions of the Temple, 1 Kings 6:2-3, and many other examples.