2553. 'Because I said, Surely there is no fear of God in this place' means the thought derived from this that men would have no respect for spiritual truth in that state in which they were then. This is clear from the meaning of 'the fear of God' as respect for Divine, or spiritual, truth, and from the meaning of 'a place' as a state, dealt with in 1273-1275, 1377. Involved here is the fact that man is unable to grasp any doctrine which is purely spiritual and celestial, that which is Divine, because it goes infinitely above and beyond his grasp of things, and so also above the range of his belief. All thoughts which man has are confined within natural things experienced by his senses, and anything that is said which does not draw on and does not fit in with those natural things is not comprehended but perishes, like sight gazing into some ocean or universe without any object there on which it may focus. Consequently if matters of doctrine were presented to man in any other manner, they would not be received at all, and so he would have no respect for them. This may become quite clear from each detail in the Word. There purely Divine things are for the same reason presented as natural, indeed sensory ones, such as that Jehovah has ears, eyes, and a face, has affections as man does, anger, and many more things.

[2] This was still more the case with men when the Lord came into the world. At that time they did not even have any knowledge of what the celestial or the spiritual was, nor even of anything internal. Wholly earthly and worldly, and thus external things possessed every thought in their minds, even the minds of the apostles themselves who supposed that the Lord's kingdom would be like a worldly kingdom. For that reason these asked to sit one on His right hand and the other on the left and for a long while imagined they were going to sit on twelve thrones and to judge the twelve tribes of Israel, still unaware of the fact that in the next life they would not have the power to judge even the least detail of any one individual's affairs, 2129 (end). His looking into this state of the human race was the reason why the Lord at first thought about whether the rational ought to be consulted in the doctrine of faith. In this He was moved by a love which was that the salvation of all might be taken care of and that the Word should not perish.

2129. There are also other types of tumults, or rather of conflicts, which also convey the idea of a Last Judgement and by which communities harmfully joined together as regards their interiors are dissolved. Concerning them let the following be mentioned: Such spirits are driven into a condition in which they do not think in their normal way as a community, that is, one with another, but each one independently. As a result of their thinking, each at variance with the others, and of each muttering something different from the rest, an uproar is produced which sounds like that of many waters; and conflict with one another takes place such as defies description which arises out of the mishmash of opinions concerning firmly established truths, which are at the time the substance of their thoughts and speech. That mishmash is such as may be called spiritual chaos.

[2] The sound of these conflicting and confused uproarings was threefold. The first flowed in around the head, and I was told it was that of thoughts. The second flowed in towards the left temple. I was told that this was a conflict of reasonings about certain truths in which they were unwilling to pin their faith. The third flowed in from above over on the right. It was rasping though less confused, a rasping sound directed first this way, then that. I was told that this was the product of truths clashing which were being turned this way and that by means of reasonings. While these conflicts were going on there were other spirits who spoke to me, telling me in speech that rose clearly above all that noise the meaning of every single thing.

[3] The matters which they reasoned about were chiefly these - whether the statement that the twelve apostles were going to sit on twelve thrones and judge the twelve tribes of Israel was to be understood literally, and also whether other people who have endured persecution and affliction were to be allowed into heaven. Each one reasoned in accordance with what had taken his fancy during his lifetime. Some of them however who had been brought back into associations with one another and into order were then informed that those descriptions were to be understood in a completely different way, that is to say, that 'apostles' is not used to mean apostles, nor 'thrones' to mean thrones, nor 'tribes' tribes, nor indeed is 'twelve' used to mean twelve. Instead apostles, thrones, tribes, and also twelve, meant the first and foremost matters of faith, 2089. They also said that such matters of faith are the starting-point and the criteria from which everyone is judged. And over and above all this they were shown that the apostles have no power to judge anyone at all, and that all judgement is the Lord's alone.

[4] As regards the second point which they reasoned about, this should not be taken to mean that only those who have endured persecution and affliction will enter heaven, but that the rich no less than the poor will do so, those who have held important positions no less than those whose position has been humble. Furthermore the Lord takes pity on all, especially on people who have endured spiritual afflictions and temptations, which are persecutions by the evil, thus on those who acknowledge that of themselves they are wretched and who believe that it is through the Lord's mercy alone they are saved.