5541. 'And Reuben said to his father' means matters of faith in the understanding were discerned by the good of truth. This is clear from the meaning of 'saying' in the historical narratives of the Word as discerning, often dealt with already; from the representation of 'Reuben' as faith in doctrine and in the understanding, dealt with in 3861, 3866, 5472, and therefore matters belonging to that faith; and from the representation of Jacob, 'his father' whom Reuben addresses here, as the good of truth, dealt with in 3659, 3669, 3677, 3775, 4234, 4273, 4538, 5533. From all this it is evident that 'Reuben said to his father' means matters of faith present in the understanding were discerned by the good of truth. The reason Reuben is the speaker here is that the subject is the Church in which faith present in doctrine and in the understanding seemingly takes the lead and teaches. Here it teaches what must be done if the destruction of what constitutes the Church is to be averted.