5782. 'And Judah said' means a perception imparted to the good of the Church in the natural. This is clear from the meaning of 'saying' in the historical narratives of the Word as perception, dealt with often (it is an imparted perception because all perception comes from the internal, that is, it flows in from the Lord by way of the internal, 5779); and from the representation of 'Judah' as the good of the Church, dealt with in 5583, 5603, 5775. Regarding Judah's representation, it should be recognized that in the highest sense he represents the Lord as regards His Divine Love, and in the internal sense His celestial kingdom, see 3654, 3881, and so the celestial kind of love there. Here therefore the good of love present with the Church in the natural is meant because now it exists among those who represent things in the natural which are to be joined to the internal.

5817. 'And so it was, when we went up to your servant my father' means a raising up to spiritual good. This is clear from the meaning of 'going up' as a raising up, dealt with below; and from the representation of Israel, to whom 'father' refers here, as spiritual good from the natural, dealt with in 4286, 4598. A raising up of the kind meant here by 'going up is a movement towards more internal things; here it is a raising up from the truths in the natural, which are represented by 'Jacob's ten sons', to spiritual good from the natural, represented by 'Israel'. For there is an exterior natural and there is an interior natural, 5497, 5649. The interior natural holds spiritual good, which is 'Israel', while the exterior natural holds the truths known to the Church, which are 'Jacob's sons', and therefore 'going up to their father' means a raising up of these to spiritual good.