5150. 'And Joseph answered and said' means revelation resulting from perception received by the celestial within the natural. This is clear from the meaning of 'answering and saying' as revelation resulting from perception, dealt with above in 5121; and from the representation of 'Joseph' as the celestial within the natural, dealt with in 5086, 5087, 5106. The reason 'Joseph' here means the celestial within the natural is that the natural is the subject. With regard to the celestial and the spiritual, the celestial itself and the spiritual itself which flow into heaven from the Lord's Divine reside principally in the interior rational, for the forms there are more perfect ones and apt receivers. Even so, the celestial and the spiritual also flow from the Lord's Divine into the exterior rational, and into the natural too, doing so both indirectly and directly. They flow indirectly by way of the interior rational, and directly from the Lord's Divine itself. What flows in directly is that which brings order, and what flows in indirectly is that to which order is brought. This is what happens in the exterior rational, as also in the natural. From this one may recognize what the celestial within the natural is.

[2] The celestial has its origin in Divine Good and the spiritual in Divine Truth - both having their origin in the Lord. When they exist in the rational they are called the celestial and spiritual within the rational, and when they exist in the natural they are called the celestial and spiritual within the natural. The rational and natural are used to mean the person himself insofar as he has been formed to receive the celestial and spiritual; but the rational is used to mean his internal and the natural his external. By reason of what flows into him, and depending on his reception of it, a person is called a celestial man or else a spiritual man - a celestial man if the Lord's Divine Good is received in the will part of his mind, a spiritual man if it is received in the understanding part.

6222. 'And he took his two sons with him, Manasseh and Ephraim' means the Church's will and the Church's understanding, born from the internal. This is clear from the representation of 'Manasseh' as the new will in the natural and its essential nature, dealt with in 5354 (end); and from the representation of 'Ephraim' as the new understanding in the natural and its essential nature, dealt with in 5354. The birth of the two from the internal is meant by the fact that they were the sons of Joseph, who represents the internal celestial, 5869, 5877.

[2] What the Church's understanding is and what its will is must be stated. The Church's understanding consists in perceiving from the Word what the truth of faith is and what the good of charity is. As is well known, the literal sense of the Word is by nature such that a person can use that sense to support any opinion at all that he may adopt. The reason for this is that ideas appearing in the literal sense of the Word serve as general vessels to receive truths, though not until they have actually received truths does the real nature of those vessels reveal itself as if through transparency. Thus those ideas form merely a general impression which a person must gain first in order that he may aptly receive particular aspects and specific details. This fact - that the literal sense of the Word is by nature such that a person can use that sense to support any opinion at all that he may adopt - is clearly evident from the great number of heresies that have existed in the Church, and still exist in it. Adherents of each heresy find support for it in the literal sense of the Word, support which enables them to believe fully that it is the truth, which means that if they were to hear the actual truth from heaven they would receive nothing at all of it.

[3] The reason why they would not receive it is that they do not share in the understanding that the Church possesses; for that understanding exists when people read the Word, assiduously take one statement together with another, and by doing so see what they ought to believe and what they ought to do. Such understanding comes only to those who receive light from the Lord, whom the Christian world also calls 'the enlightened'. That enlightenment does not come to any but the kind of people who have the desire to know truths, not for the sake of reputation and glory but for the sake of life and service. That same enlightenment is received by a person in his understanding, for the understanding is the receiver of light. This is clearly evident from the fact that people who have little understanding cannot by any means see such things from the Word but have faith in those who they think are the enlightened. Furthermore it should be recognized that those who have been regenerated receive from the Lord an understanding which is capable of being enlightened; and it is the light of heaven coming from the Lord that flows into the understanding and gives it light, for the understanding receives its light, its sight, and consequently its perception from no other source.

[4] But this understanding which is being called the Church's understanding is more internal than an understanding based merely on factual knowledge, for it consists in a discernment that a thing is true not because factual evidence and philosophical deductions dictate it but because the Word in its spiritual sense does so. For example, people who possess the Church's understanding can perceive clearly that in every single part the Word teaches that love to the Lord and charity towards the neighbour are the essential qualities of the Church, that a person's life continues after death, and that his life arises out of his loves. They can also perceive that faith separated from charity is not faith, that faith contributes nothing to eternal life except in the measure that the good of love to the Lord and the good of charity towards the neighbour are linked to it, and that faith and charity must therefore be joined together so that spiritual life may exist. People with an enlightened understanding can perceive quite clearly that these things are true; but those without it can by no means see that they are.

[5] It is thought that the people with an understanding in things of the Church are those who know how to substantiate extensively the opinions or teachings of their Church, to the point of convincing others that they are true, and who know how to refute numerous heresies in a masterly way. But this is not what is meant by the Church's understanding, for substantiating opinions is not a characteristic of the understanding but of mental ability at a sensory level, which sometimes comes to exist in very wicked people; indeed those without any beliefs at all, also those who are steeped in actual falsities, can have that ability. Nothing comes more easily to both these kinds of people than to substantiate whatever idea they like, so thoroughly that they convince the simple. But before substantiating any opinion the Church's understanding engages in seeing and perceiving whether it is true or not, and in substantiating it only after that.

[6] This understanding is what is represented by 'Ephraim'. But the Church's good, which is represented by 'Manasseh', is the good of charity, which the Lord instills into a member of the Church through the truths of faith. For these truths together with the good of charity are what flow into the understanding and give it light, and also enable the understanding and the will to constitute one mind. The truth that both these - the understanding and the will - are born from the internal may be seen from what was stated and shown previously; for the whole affection for goodness and truth, the affection through which enlightenment comes, flows in from no other origin, thus is born from no other origin than the internal; that is, it comes from the Lord through the internal.