4489. 'Will these not be ours?' means that these two kinds of goods and truths would be alike and take the same form. This becomes clear from the train of thought, the essence of which is that the goods and truths of the Most Ancient Church, which in some measure still remained in existence among Hamor and Shechem and their families, would accord with the goods and truths which came from the Ancient Church and existed among the descendants of Jacob. For the observances which were established among the descendants of Jacob were nothing other than external things which represented and meant the internal things of the Most Ancient Church. 'Will these not be ours?' - or, Would they not belong to them? - means that they would be alike and take the same form.

[2] But let an example illustrate this matter. The altar on which they used to offer sacrifice was the chief representative of the Lord, 921, 2777, 2811. The altar was also for that reason fundamental to the worship in the Ancient Church that was called the Hebrew Church, and therefore every single thing that went into the construction of the altar was representative, such as its dimensions - its height, breadth, and length - its stones, its network of bronze, its horns; and so was the fire which was kept burning on it perpetually; and above all the sacrifices and burnt offerings. What they represented were the truths and goods which are the Lord's and which come from the Lord. These were the internal things of worship which, because they were represented in that external object, were alike and took the same form as the truths and goods of the Most Ancient Church. Its dimensions - its height, breadth, and length - meant in general the good, the truth, and the holiness from these, see 650, 1613, 3433, 3434, 4482. 'Its stones' meant in particular those truths that are more basic, 1298, 3720. 'The bronze' from which the network around the altar was made meant natural good, 425, 1551. 'The horns' meant the power of truth that springs from good, 2832. 'The fire' on the altar meant love, 934. 'The sacrifices and burnt offerings' meant celestial and spiritual things, according to their various kinds, 922, 1823, 2180, 2805, 2807, 2830, 3519. From all this it becomes clear that internal things were to be contained within external ones, and that internally the two sets of goods and truths would be alike. The same applies to all other external aspects of worship.

[3] But those who belonged to the Most Ancient Church had no interest in those external things because they were internal people, and the Lord flowed in by an internal way existing with them and taught them what was good. To them the variations and differences of good were truths, and from this they knew what every single thing in the world represented in the Lord's kingdom; for the whole world or whole natural order is a theatre representative of the Lord's kingdom, 2758, 3483. Those however who belonged to the Ancient Church were not internal people but external, as a consequence of which the Lord was not able with them to flow in by an internal way and teach them what was good, only by an external way. At first He flowed in and taught them by means of such things as were representatives and meaningful signs, from which the representative Church arose, and later on by means of matters of doctrine concerning good and truth which were so represented and meant, from which the Christian Church arose. In essence the Christian Church is identical so far as its internal form is concerned with the representative Church, but the representatives and meaningful signs of the latter were done away with after the Lord came into the world, for the reason that every single thing represented Him Himself and as a consequence the things of His kingdom, for these are derived from Him and are so to speak the Lord Himself.

[4] But the difference between the Most Ancient Church and the Christian Church is as great as that between the bright light of the sun by day and the inferior light of the moon or stars by night. For seeing goods by the internal or earlier way is like seeing in the daytime by the bright light of the sun, whereas seeing by the external or later way is like seeing in the night by the inferior light of the moon or stars. The difference was almost the same between the Most Ancient Church and the Ancient, except that those who belonged to the Christian Church could have dwelt in fuller light if they had acknowledged internal things, that is, if they had believed and practiced the truths and goods which the Lord taught. The actual good is the same in both, but the difference between them is that one sees that good in brightness, the other in obscurity. Those who see in brightness see countless arcana almost as angels in heaven do and also feel an affection for those which they see, whereas those who see in obscurity see scarcely anything that is free from doubt, and the things they do see mingle themselves with the shades of night, that is, with falsities. Nor can they inwardly feel any affection for them. Now because the good is the same in both, so also as a consequence is the truth; and this is why the words 'will these not be ours?' mean that the two sets of goods and truths would be alike and take the same form. For as stated already, Hamor and Shechem were part of the remnants of the Most Ancient Church, while the descendants of Jacob belonged to the Ancient Church called the Hebrew Church, though they were interested only in the external things of that Church. But the fact that Hamor and Shechem his son committed an enormous sin by accepting circumcision will be seen below in 4493.

3519. 'And take for me from there two good kids of the she-goats' means truths born from that good. This is clear from the meaning of 'kids of the she-goats' as truths born from good, dealt with below. The reason for having 'two' was that as in the rational so in the natural there are things of the will and those of the understanding. Things in the natural that belong to the will are delights, while those that belong to the understanding are facts. These two have to be joined together if they are to be anything at all.

[2] As regards 'kids of the she-goats' meaning truths born from good, this becomes clear from those places in the Word where kids and she-goats are mentioned. It should be recognized that all gentle and useful beasts mentioned in the Word mean in the genuine sense celestial things, which are forms of good, and spiritual things, which are forms of truth, see 45, 46, 142, 143, 246, 714, 715, 776, 2179, 2180, 2781, 3218. And since there are various genera of celestial things or forms of good, and consequently there are various genera of spiritual things or forms of truth, one beast has a different meaning from another; that is to say, a lamb has one meaning, a kid another, and a sheep, she-goat, ram, he-goat, young bull, or ox another, while a horse or a camel has yet another meaning. Birds have a different meaning again, as also do beasts of the sea, such as sea monsters, and fish. The genera of celestial and spiritual things, and consequently of forms of good and truth, are more than anyone can number, even though when that which is celestial or good is mentioned, and also when that which is spiritual or truth, this is not envisaged as being anything complex, consisting of many parts, but as a single entity. Yet how complex both of these are, that is, how countless the genera are of which they consist, may be seen from what has been stated about heaven in 3241, to the effect that it is distinguished into countless separate communities, according to the genera of celestial and spiritual things, that is, of goods of love and of derivative truths of faith. Furthermore each genus of good and each genus of truth has countless species into which the communities of each genus are separated. And each species in a similar way has separate sub-species.

[3] The commonest genera of good and truth are what the living creatures offered as burnt offerings and sacrifices represented. And because the genera are quite distinct and separate, people were explicitly commanded to use those living creatures and no others, that is to say, in some sacrifices lambs and ewe-lambs, and also kids and female kids of she-goats were to be used, in other sacrifices rams and sheep, and also he-goats, were to be used, while in other sacrifices again, calves, young bulls, and oxen, or else pigeons and doves, were to be used, see 992, 1823, 2180, 2805, 2807, 2830, 3218. What kids and she-goats meant however becomes clear both from the sacrifices in which they used to be offered and from other places in the Word. These show that lambs and ewe-lambs meant innocence belonging to the internal or rational man, and kids and she-goats innocence belonging to the external or natural man, and so the truth and the good of the latter.

[4] The fact that truth and good present in the innocence that belongs to the external or natural man is meant by a kid and a she-goat is clear from the following places in the Word: In Isaiah,

The wolf will dwell with the lamb, and the leopard will lie down with the kid, the calf also and the young lion and the sheep together; and a little child will lead them. Isaiah 11:6.

This refers to the Lord's kingdom and to the state there in which people have no fear of evil, that is, no dread of hell, because they are with the Lord. 'The lamb' and 'the kid' stand for people who have innocence within them, and who, being the most secure of all, are mentioned first.

[5] When all the firstborn of Egypt were smitten the people were commanded to kill from among the lambs or among the kids a male without blemish, and to put some of the blood on the doorposts and on the lintel of their houses; and so the destroyer would not strike them with the plague, Exodus 12:5, 7, 13. 'The firstborn of Egypt' means the good of love and charity that was wiped out, 3325. 'The lambs' and 'the kids' are states of innocence, in which those with whom these exist are secure from evil. Indeed all in heaven are kept secure by the Lord through states of innocence. That security was represented by the killing of the lamb or kid, and putting the blood on the doorposts and on the lintel of the houses. .

[6] To avert his own death when a person saw Jehovah manifested as an angel he would sacrifice 'a kid of the she-goats', as Gideon did when he saw Him, Judges 6:19, and also Manoah, Judges 13:15-16, 19. The reason they offered a kid was that Jehovah or the Lord cannot appear to anybody, not even to an angel, unless the one to whom He appears is in a state of innocence. Therefore as soon as the Lord is present people are brought into a state of innocence, for the Lord enters in by way of innocence, even with angels in heaven. Consequently no one is able to enter heaven unless he has a measure of innocence, according to the Lord's words recorded in Matthew 18:3; Mark 10:15; Luke 18:17. Regarding people's belief that they would die when Jehovah appeared to them if they did not offer such a burnt offering, see Judges 13:22-23.

[7] Since genuine conjugial love is innocence itself, 2736, it was customary in the representative Church for a man to go to his wife with the gift of a kid of the she-goats, as one reads of Samson in Judges 15:1, and also of Judah when he visited Tamar, Genesis 38:17, 20, 23. The fact that 'a kid' and 'a she-goat' meant innocence is also evident from the sacrifices made as guilt offerings that a person would offer if he had sinned through error, Leviticus 1:10; 4:28; 5:6. Sinning through error is sinning through ignorance that has innocence within it. The same is evident from the following Divine command in Moses,

You shall bring the first of the firstfruits of your land to the house of Jehovah your God. You shall not boil a kid in its mother's milk. Exodus 23:19; 34:26.

Here the requirement 'to bring the firstfruits of the land to the house of Jehovah' means the state of innocence which exists in early childhood; and 'not boiling a kid in its mother's milk' means that they were not to destroy the innocence of early childhood. This being their meaning, the one command, in both places referred to, follows directly after the other. In the literal sense there seems to be no connection at all between them as there is in the internal sense.

[8] Because kids and she-goats, as has been stated, meant innocence it was also required that the curtains over the tabernacle should be made from she-goat hair, Exodus 25:4; 26:7; 35:5-6, 23, 26; 36:14, as a sign that all the holy things represented in it depended for their very being on innocence. 'She-goat hair' means the last or outermost degree of innocence present in ignorance, such as exists with gentiles who in the internal sense are meant by the curtains of the tabernacle. These considerations now show what truths born of good are, and what the nature of these is, meant by the two good kids of the she-goats which Rebekah his mother spoke about to Jacob. That is to say, they are truths belonging to innocence or early childhood, meant also by the things which Esau was to bring to Isaac his father, dealt with in 3501, 3508. They were not in fact such truths, but initially they appeared to be. Thus it was that Jacob pretended by means of them to be Esau.